Topic: Doli Incapax. This is the British law where a 10 year old or under cannot be tried for the crimes...
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. started this discussion 15 years ago#1,267
...they commit. If this is the case, what should happen if a 9 year old, that is fully aware of their actions (i.e, know the right from wrong, what's acceptable and what isn't), commits an atrocious act such as murder. Who should be made accountable?
Nexus !jNexusRe/. joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 54 seconds later[^][v]#24,392
The prime minister.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 48 seconds later, 1 minute after the original post[^][v]#24,398
Under the law, the child cannot fully understand the action.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 14 seconds later, 1 minute after the original post[^][v]#24,401
The queen
Nega !34Kas0OdzM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 19 seconds later, 2 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,403
I read that this nasty little loophole has been exploited several times by Muslim extremists... mostly to get rid of daughters who shamed their families
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 42 seconds later, 2 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,407
They will face trial after their 10th birthday.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 seconds later, 3 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,409
They should. They did it, knowing right from wrong even.
A prison sentence might not be appropriate, perhaps some kind of intensive therapy or care? They might still be redeemable at that stage.
Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 30 seconds later, 3 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,411
Nobody is held accountable. That is if the murder occurred under the right circumstances. Obviously a parent would be expected to intervene if their 9yo and another child got into a fight in there presence but if it occurred some place else, it would be unreasonable to hold someone accountable. What reasonable person would expect a child to kill someone?
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 second later, 3 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,413
Right, this is the opinion of the person I'm having this conversation with. Should the parents, if they're responsible for the child, be accountable for their actions if the child cannot be tried?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 5 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,427
> Right, this is the opinion of the person I'm having this conversation with. Should the parents, if they're responsible for the child, be accountable for their actions if the child cannot be tried?
What would be accomplished by holding the parents responsible? If the parents are investigated and found to be fit parents who did not encourage the child to kill then I think it would be appropriate but in the case where a child just snaps (and it has happened before though I do not know from memory if one as young as 9 has) then I do not think anything would be accomplished by punishing the parents. It is really something that I do not believe should be handled with a broad stroke.
Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,451
@24,427 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
mens rea is the guilty mind and mens actus is the guilty act. If a person commits a crime without knowing that what they are doing is wrong then they have committed no crime if they think about committing a crime but do not follow through with the act then no crime has been committed. That is the basic explanation. Those two conditions must be met for a crime to have occurred.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 10 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,455
> Right, this is the opinion of the person I'm having this conversation with. Should the parents, if they're responsible for the child, be accountable for their actions if the child cannot be tried?
You'll get into an endless loop of evasions, unprovable claims and faggotry with a nice helping of media hysteria. <_<
The problem is that a child has more than two authority figures, so pinning responsibility on them just like that is asking for trouble.
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 52 seconds later, 11 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,460
@24,442 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Legally to the point where their child commits a crime. Yet the family can get prosecuted if the child skips school.
@24,444 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
I know what you mean, and don't get me wrong, I do agree. But surely it's classed as abuse to let a child get into a mindset that it wants to commit an atrocious attack like murder. You're responsible for that child and it's upbringing?
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 12 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,463
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 17 seconds later, 12 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,464
@24,427 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Guilty mind and guilty act.
(Edited 10 seconds later.)
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 14 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,469
@24,451 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
Which is a legal/philosophical (the two overlap quite a bit) construct necessary to explain why B who hands a poisoned plate of soup to A given to him by C is not guilty of murder, even though B was the one completing the action that lead to A's death.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 15 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,474
@24,460 (Tekamine !AnRbswGQv.)
The parents aren't 100% responsible for a child's upbringing and resultant mentality. There will be other influences on them that the parents simply can't control.
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,482
Yes, but the parents have legal responsibility for the child.
Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ replied with this 15 years ago, 10 seconds later, 18 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,484
@24,460 (Tekamine !AnRbswGQv.) > I know what you mean, and don't get me wrong, I do agree. But surely it's classed as abuse to let a child get into a mindset that it wants to commit an atrocious attack like murder. You're responsible for that child and it's upbringing?
Good point but at what point can it be argued that a person lets their child get into a mindset that you described? Parents have a hard time understanding their children under normal circumstances most of the time. Any parent will tell you that it is a full time job. If a child is OBVIOUSLY being steered in the direction to kill someone then that is different but then again how is that defined? Also, if we let the state mandate decisions parents make in the lives of their children do we not open a door that could lead down an undesired path? It is a bit like nailing jello to a wall when you really start to delve into the details.
Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ double-posted this 15 years ago, 50 seconds later, 19 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,486
> Which is a legal/philosophical (the two overlap quite a bit) construct necessary to explain why B who hands a poisoned plate of soup to A given to him by C is not guilty of murder, even though B was the one completing the action that lead to A's death.
Exactly.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 21 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,494
Maybe, but it could also devolve into a debate about school in general, and the one the child went to in particular, which will require a truckload new witnesses and "experts" to be summoned.
See where this is going?
(Edited 8 minutes later.)
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 52 seconds later, 22 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,499
Ok, lets say the child is from a broken home. No father, promiscuous mother, lots of men in and out of their lives. Abuse to themselves. Them abusing animals. Not so much being told to kill, just making the child have no social norms and boundaries. What then?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 19 seconds later, 22 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,500
@24,482 (Tekamine !AnRbswGQv.)
The parents can't control or keep watch over them all of the time.
The legality of it isn't always right. The parents shouldn't get the blame if they couldn't have done anything to stop it.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 22 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,501
@24,486 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
Naturally.
I am always right unless proven wrong, which doesn't happen as we already clarified at the beginning of this unecessarily long and convoluted sentence.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Nega !34Kas0OdzM double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 23 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,507
@24,500 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx) > The legality of it isn't always right. The parents shouldn't get the blame if they couldn't have done anything to stop it.
Which isn't something you can easily prove or disprove...
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 25 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,509
> Ok, lets say the child is from a broken home. No father, promiscuous mother, lots of men in and out of their lives. Abuse to themselves. Them abusing animals. Not so much being told to kill, just making the child have no social norms and boundaries. What then?
This is a situation A LOT of people have been through and some end up in the various prisons/death rows here in America. It usually takes them until they reach adulthood to begin to repeat the cycle they were apart of as children. In this case I would think it would be necessary for the child to be taken out of the home and the parent(s) to face abuse charges. All too often the wrong people have children and have then in large numbers. I am a big supporter of people having to take tests before they are a allowed to reproduce.
totoforhire !!Phkn/3Gic joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 11 seconds later, 25 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,511
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 49 seconds later, 26 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,513
@24,507 (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
I know. It would just be better if it was a bit more flexible, and could fit with the context of what happened and the evidence available.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 28 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,519
@24,509 (Tekamine !AnRbswGQv.)
I had no idea who that is...
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 1 second later, 28 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,520
> I know. It would just be better if it was a bit more flexible, and could fit with the context of what happened and the evidence available.
Which evidence?
trollface.jpg
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 24 seconds later, 29 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,522
@24,510 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
This is what i'm talking about. Yes they should be charged and children taken into care, but what happens if the child commits these acts. Is it punishment enough to have your kids taken off you?
And yes, people should have to take tests to prove what type of people they will be to a child.
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) double-posted this 15 years ago, 47 seconds later, 30 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,528
I've been to the shopping centre plenty of times and the place he was found, is near a football stadium.
totoforhire !!Phkn/3Gic replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 47 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,598
@previous (Tekamine !AnRbswGQv.)
Next time, will you please take some pictures? Also, have you ever heard anyone in your area speak about this crime?
Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 50 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,606
@24,583 (Tekamine !AnRbswGQv.)
The death of that child was so horrific. Those boys should have been buried alive or be forced to witness their mothers being burned to death. It is harsh and not realistic but it would make me feel better.
(Edited 9 seconds later.)
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 53 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,623
@previous (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
Interesting how Justice and Retribution can be the one and the same in one instant and two completely different pairs of shoes the next.
/is in rambling mode tonight.
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 55 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,630
@24,606 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
I agree, it was. You have the same mindset as most people around here.
The two bastards have had two identity changes at the expense of the British tax payer.
totoforhire !!Phkn/3Gic replied with this 15 years ago, 22 seconds later, 55 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,632
@24,606 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
They threw paint in his eyes and molested him before bludgeoning him to death.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 27 seconds later, 56 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,634
> I agree, it was. You have the same mindset as most people around here. > The two bastards have had two identity changes at the expense of the British tax payer.
Oh. Shit.
Tekamine !AnRbswGQv. (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 57 minutes after the original post[^][v]#24,638