Topic: Killer Lettuce, thank you for telling me to try Mass Effect again!
Green !!bO/s3MBcD started this discussion 1 year ago #121,950
I could never get into it but after you told me to give the Legendary Edition a shot, I did and I think they're great games. Thanks! Should I try the Dragon Age games?
Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 7 hours later[^] [v] #1,331,802
Well I'm not going to tell you on here, obviously. I'll send out a telepathic message, like I did with my Mass Effect recommendation.
(Yes, I think the Dragon Age games are good. They have a less consistent identity than the Mass Effect games, the gameplay and "feel" of the games got tweaked each time, so people's reaction to the series is more mixed. Personally I like them all, but the first one at least is quite universally liked).
(Yes, I think the Dragon Age games are good. They have a less consistent identity than the Mass Effect games, the gameplay and "feel" of the games got tweaked each time, so people's reaction to the series is more mixed. Personally I like them all, but the first one at least is quite universally liked).
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Erik !saAqdaazn2 joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 42 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,811
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 54 seconds later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,812
Ass Effect
Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,825
@1,331,811 (Erik !saAqdaazn2)
Oh, no. Not that one. I haven't played it, and I'm probably not going to.
Yeah, the writers have let their opinions bleed into the narrative way too much. The non-binary character in it is an obvious self-insert, wish fulfillment thing for the non-binary writer who wrote them. Elsewhere, a character at one point says that they won't steal from certain ruins because that would be disrespectful to the culture who owned them previously. I don't mind these things in themselves, but it's been done in such a hamfisted way that it breaks immersion.
It can be done well, though. Dragon Age Inquisition had a gay companion, who had a quest about his father basically trying to do conversion therapy on him using magic. But that was much better recieved, as they made it feel immersed unto the setting and, crucially, they also made the character likeable so that the players sympathised with him. He didn't feel like an avatar of gay rights issues, he felt like the player's friend and companion.
But personally, I could have overlooked all of that stuff. My big problem with Veilguard is how it's been reduced to a simplistic story of good vs. evil. Factions that were morally grey before have been retconned to remove their negative traits. The companions are all basically nice and inoffensive people who never argue with the player character, and you can't really do anything that's evil yourself. I enjoyed the Dragon Age games because they were a bit more complex, there were moral dilemmas, you could get into arguments with your companions and that made them feel more real. The new one has been sanitised to remove all of that.
Haha, sorry, you probably weren't expecting a massive essay in response to that. But I'm a big fan of Dragon Age, so I was really disappointed that the new one was like that.
Oh, no. Not that one. I haven't played it, and I'm probably not going to.
Yeah, the writers have let their opinions bleed into the narrative way too much. The non-binary character in it is an obvious self-insert, wish fulfillment thing for the non-binary writer who wrote them. Elsewhere, a character at one point says that they won't steal from certain ruins because that would be disrespectful to the culture who owned them previously. I don't mind these things in themselves, but it's been done in such a hamfisted way that it breaks immersion.
It can be done well, though. Dragon Age Inquisition had a gay companion, who had a quest about his father basically trying to do conversion therapy on him using magic. But that was much better recieved, as they made it feel immersed unto the setting and, crucially, they also made the character likeable so that the players sympathised with him. He didn't feel like an avatar of gay rights issues, he felt like the player's friend and companion.
But personally, I could have overlooked all of that stuff. My big problem with Veilguard is how it's been reduced to a simplistic story of good vs. evil. Factions that were morally grey before have been retconned to remove their negative traits. The companions are all basically nice and inoffensive people who never argue with the player character, and you can't really do anything that's evil yourself. I enjoyed the Dragon Age games because they were a bit more complex, there were moral dilemmas, you could get into arguments with your companions and that made them feel more real. The new one has been sanitised to remove all of that.
Haha, sorry, you probably weren't expecting a massive essay in response to that. But I'm a big fan of Dragon Age, so I was really disappointed that the new one was like that.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 5 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,853
@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
> Elsewhere, a character at one point says that they won't steal from certain ruins because that would be disrespectful to the culture who owned them previously. I don't mind these things in themselves, but it's been done in such a hamfisted way that it breaks immersion.
I think that would be fine if you had another character that wanted you to rob the ruins and you as the player got to decide whether you would steal it or not - with meaningfully different story outcomes changing depending on your choice. You could even make it didactic and have the stealing be short-term beneficial but long-term bad if you wanted to hammer the message home. If all that happens is you get told what to think and move on, that's lazy game writing.
> Elsewhere, a character at one point says that they won't steal from certain ruins because that would be disrespectful to the culture who owned them previously. I don't mind these things in themselves, but it's been done in such a hamfisted way that it breaks immersion.
I think that would be fine if you had another character that wanted you to rob the ruins and you as the player got to decide whether you would steal it or not - with meaningfully different story outcomes changing depending on your choice. You could even make it didactic and have the stealing be short-term beneficial but long-term bad if you wanted to hammer the message home. If all that happens is you get told what to think and move on, that's lazy game writing.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,858
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
They manage to take some time between the long winded self-cocksucking about doing pushups to apologize for misgendering the heshe dragon slayer, and the marvel quips, to give you three options to support your teammates decision to not loot the dungeon.
They manage to take some time between the long winded self-cocksucking about doing pushups to apologize for misgendering the heshe dragon slayer, and the marvel quips, to give you three options to support your teammates decision to not loot the dungeon.
(Edited 40 seconds later.)
Green !!bO/s3MBcD (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,869
Lol. I was trying to find a thread I made about Fable 3 a decade ago and I stumbled upon this gem where Killer Lettuce is telling me to play Mass Effect. Checkmate.
https://minichan.net/topic/6838#reply_121984
https://minichan.net/topic/6838#reply_121984
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 1 year ago, 8 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,873
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 3 hours later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,899
Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 1 year ago, 9 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,903
@1,331,853 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)> If all that happens is you get told what to think and move on, that's lazy game writing.
Admittedly, I don't know the full context. But yes, that seems to be the case. It's a comment made by one of the companions. Here's a screenshot.
This ties into the main problem I mentioned- the simplification of the world. In previous Dragon Age games, there probably would have been a morally dubious companion who would've gotten into an argument with the companion who said that. And then you, the player, could have taken a side, you could have given your opinion and argued about it, but there's not really any of that in this Dragon Age.
I find that RPG companions are best when you don't just play as a yes-man and agree with them all the time about everything, when you roleplay a bit and give your character some strong opinions. But this game has removed the ability to do that, as companion approval is actually their levelling system, and thus you can never lose approval or really piss them off in any major way. It is very sad to see what became of BioWare, they used to be the trendsetters for RPGs, and now they're reduced to this...
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 1 year ago, 14 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,331,907
@1,331,899 (F)
Lol game's grate.
@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
Gross, seems like they took everything that made the first one cool and interesting and replaced it with watered down crap. I don't buy new games that often but I'm definitely not buying this one.
Lol game's grate.
@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
Gross, seems like they took everything that made the first one cool and interesting and replaced it with watered down crap. I don't buy new games that often but I'm definitely not buying this one.
Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 1 month ago, 1 year later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,542
@1,331,825 (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
@1,331,903 (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
I doubt anyone cares too much about Veilguard anymore, but I did want to follow these posts up a bit with an article I only recently saw.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-11/inside-the-dragon-age-debacle-that-gutted-ea-s-bioware-studio
The writer, Jason Schreier, is pretty well-known in games journalism for getting insider information and doing deep dives like this one.
In short, it had a lot of internal problems. It was pivoted by EA into being a live service game and then back to singleplayer one again, a lot of important people left the team, and by the time it was turned back into a singleplayer RPG again there wasn't much time to add moral choices and nuance that they couldn't have in a live service game.
So, not entirely BioWare's fault, it wasn't just that they were "woke" or incompetent. A lot of the dumbing-down and quirky Marvel tone was already set in stone by the time they were desperately trying to make it back into a singleplayer game. But having said that, that preachy non-binary character was still just terrible, and even a lot of LGBT people didn't like them.
Really sucks to see BioWare, one of the all-time great RPG studios go down the toilet like this. Very few people expect Mass Effect 4 to be good, at this point. I guess the moral of the story is that selling to big publishers can be a terrible idea, as they will force you to do retarded things like chase live service trends and ruin your game. I know that not everybody can be like Larian and make a massive hit that'll keep the lights on for a good long while, but having creative control seems preferable to this...
@1,331,903 (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
I doubt anyone cares too much about Veilguard anymore, but I did want to follow these posts up a bit with an article I only recently saw.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-11/inside-the-dragon-age-debacle-that-gutted-ea-s-bioware-studio
The writer, Jason Schreier, is pretty well-known in games journalism for getting insider information and doing deep dives like this one.
In short, it had a lot of internal problems. It was pivoted by EA into being a live service game and then back to singleplayer one again, a lot of important people left the team, and by the time it was turned back into a singleplayer RPG again there wasn't much time to add moral choices and nuance that they couldn't have in a live service game.
So, not entirely BioWare's fault, it wasn't just that they were "woke" or incompetent. A lot of the dumbing-down and quirky Marvel tone was already set in stone by the time they were desperately trying to make it back into a singleplayer game. But having said that, that preachy non-binary character was still just terrible, and even a lot of LGBT people didn't like them.
Really sucks to see BioWare, one of the all-time great RPG studios go down the toilet like this. Very few people expect Mass Effect 4 to be good, at this point. I guess the moral of the story is that selling to big publishers can be a terrible idea, as they will force you to do retarded things like chase live service trends and ruin your game. I know that not everybody can be like Larian and make a massive hit that'll keep the lights on for a good long while, but having creative control seems preferable to this...
Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU replied with this 1 month ago, 5 hours later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,557
@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
There already was a mass effect 4, and it was so bad that you have already forgotten it. Not as bad as failguard though.
There already was a mass effect 4, and it was so bad that you have already forgotten it. Not as bad as failguard though.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 7 minutes later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,565
ah dragon age and mass effect. They have a certain "air" about them that I tried getting into but it just doesnt click for me. I understand they're good and are considered masterpieces by a good portion of whites. Reminds me of old halo and borderlands 1. cant quite put my finger on it but its the same thing when i see a black guy's game history and all i see is 2K, madden Mortal Kombat and COD.
Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 1 month ago, 43 minutes later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,581
@1,409,557 (Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU)
No I remember Andromeda. But sorry, I can see how that was confusing, maybe I should've just said "the next Mass Effect".
But I actually liked Andromeda! The combat in it was the best that ME ever was, and the Kett were interesting villains (they were the opposite of the Reapers in some ways which was cool IMO). IIRC it also suffered a choppy production, though, which is why it came out in rough shape. Maybe that one is a bit more on BioWare though, granted.
No I remember Andromeda. But sorry, I can see how that was confusing, maybe I should've just said "the next Mass Effect".
But I actually liked Andromeda! The combat in it was the best that ME ever was, and the Kett were interesting villains (they were the opposite of the Reapers in some ways which was cool IMO). IIRC it also suffered a choppy production, though, which is why it came out in rough shape. Maybe that one is a bit more on BioWare though, granted.
(Edited 32 seconds later.)
Green !!bO/s3MBcD (OP) replied with this 1 month ago, 6 hours later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,618
Green !!bO/s3MBcD (OP) double-posted this 1 month ago, 48 seconds later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,619
I was going to replay as a renegade sentinel but Killer Lettuce told me on Discord to try out the Assassin's Creed series so I'm playing Odyssey.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 1 day later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,702
@1,331,903 (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
its weird how they named a tranny character after the devil in the narnia books.
its weird how they named a tranny character after the devil in the narnia books.
(Edited 14 seconds later.)
Some black guy on the internet joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 2 minutes later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,703
Why are you all talking about playing gay characters in video games? That’s weird. I’ve never done that before.
Some black guy on the internet double-posted this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,704
I know I’m a computer science major but I’m not this nerdy. I don’t understand what you people are talking about.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 2 days later, 1 year after the original post[^] [v] #1,410,123
Oh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa