Topic: How come transgender characters are written so lazilingly?
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI started this discussion 1 year ago #121,085
One such hint is that the creators of said character would tend to rely too heavily on the colors of the transgender flag to stress that a character is trans.This is lazy as fuck. You could also indicate that a character is trans through their own unique struggles and personalities. But god forbid we actually get intriguing trans characters. Just slap the baby blue, pink, and white on them and there you go.
Transgender and gender non-confirming characters have always existed and because this knowledge was seen as taboo, it really put pressure on writers and creators to develop them more. Which is why we have respected characters within their fandoms who are not only transgender or gender non-confirming, but also memorable in their own way.
Such characters included:
- Birdo (Mario series)
- Vivian (Mario series)
- Poison (Final Fight)
- Ladiva (Gran Blue)
- Mai Natsume (BlazBlue)
- Astolfo (Fate series)
It feels like diversity has really made writers lazy because a lot of fans are starved for unique characters to represent their particular community and yet fail to give them something memorable.
See Safe Space and Snowflake.
Why aren't there any good transgender characters anymore?
(Edited 20 seconds later.)
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 7 minutes later[^] [v] #1,324,494
See Safe Space and Snowflake.Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 10 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,495
Nothing says "clone trooper" like a unique uniform, name and sexuality.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,499
I feel like Astolfo is kind of a dubious character
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,521
Another J0sibot post, same bland topics, PC writing, and typical enumeration and predictable paragraph spacing.
At this point we'd be better off with another illiterate troll or angry anon.
At this point we'd be better off with another illiterate troll or angry anon.
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 10 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,522
Chuckle Brother 2 !ErY2TknG0w joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,523
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 20 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,526
!tr.t4dJfuU replied with this 1 year ago, 23 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,527
Chuckle Brother 2 !ErY2TknG0w joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 40 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,530
Shut the fuck up catherine
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 15 hours later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,576
dw !p9hU6ckyqw joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,581
Probably because they are characters in the 64th sequel to an already intensely boring movie
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 8 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,582
Most characters in most video games are written poorly because they are toys made for children. Thanks.
Chuffed !m8sJfgzmLE joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 23 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,583
I'm pretty sure most of this stuff is basic storyboard spitballing: write 3 bullet points, give quirky negative stat, send it. Games about 'self discovery' get the discount indie treatment and are $13 on Steam in 2 months (not fit for AAA titles).
@1,324,581 (dw !p9hU6ckyqw)
Yep, cut and paste doesn't get an origin story every game
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Took me too long to figure that out. Was a big JRPG nerd and would look past the terrible story and cookie cutter characters just to watch the numbers go up ('sperg problems).
@1,324,494 (B)
That was the strangest 'self awareness' swing-and-a-miss with the comicsgate fallout. Who was that even for?? They already won, no need to take a big steamy shit right in Marvel's front yard.
@1,324,581 (dw !p9hU6ckyqw)
Yep, cut and paste doesn't get an origin story every game
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Took me too long to figure that out. Was a big JRPG nerd and would look past the terrible story and cookie cutter characters just to watch the numbers go up ('sperg problems).
@1,324,494 (B)
That was the strangest 'self awareness' swing-and-a-miss with the comicsgate fallout. Who was that even for?? They already won, no need to take a big steamy shit right in Marvel's front yard.
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,604
@previous (Chuffed !m8sJfgzmLE)
Yeah, I suppose this does sort of fall into the category of “self-discovery.” It makes me wonder why it’s not popular enough for mainstream triple A games. I’m assuming it’s because the West has been too traumatized to a point they don’t want to confront themselves or because companies know it’s bad for business. You can’t have potential labor monkeys know their value.
There is actually a manga that handles trans and non-binary characters really well. Not portrayed as a joke or as woke. Love Me for Who I Am is freaking adorable and relatable for anyone within the community. Though the main character is non-binary, not trans.
Yeah, I suppose this does sort of fall into the category of “self-discovery.” It makes me wonder why it’s not popular enough for mainstream triple A games. I’m assuming it’s because the West has been too traumatized to a point they don’t want to confront themselves or because companies know it’s bad for business. You can’t have potential labor monkeys know their value.
There is actually a manga that handles trans and non-binary characters really well. Not portrayed as a joke or as woke. Love Me for Who I Am is freaking adorable and relatable for anyone within the community. Though the main character is non-binary, not trans.
Anonymous C replied with this 1 year ago, 17 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,607
Anonymous G replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,608
Meta !Sober//iZs joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,610
Because game developers realized paint-by-numbers "representation" is a lot easier than storytelling or making characters interesting.
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,617
its cause trannies literally only exist to prop up shitty storytelling or contemptible philosophies
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 30 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,632
Because nobody really adds them to enhance the story they are added in to meet forced diversity quotas
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,644
@previous (N)
This is kind of why I hate woke Hollywood. There are problems in anime, sure, but at least they try to focus on characterization for a lot of the few gems you can find. I remember the film industry and TV industry was never like this. A female character who was strong was memorable. See Ellen Ripley from the Alien franchise or Sarah Connor from The Terminator franchise. I just want a well-written transgender superhero character that isn't shoehorned in for the sake of diversity. I want representation too, but if you're just going to do some cookie cutter bullshit than that's the same as no representation for me.
Thankfully, Ms. Marvel seems to cover some of the core aspects of the trans experience while not even being written as a trans character. I just hope MARVEL tries to make her into some cookie cutter Muslim superhero when her first comic line is actually really good and felt as if she had been around for decades despite being a newer superhero.
@1,324,610 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
This is the first time in a long while that I'm in agreement with you.
@1,324,607 (C)
I say there is from the perspective of people wanting to be themselves. You probably see a lot more people identify this way because they are tired of being shoehorned into one of the two gender categories. It's their way of saying that we're just going to be ourselves, a person with our own unique identity and personality than a typical woman or a typical man. Anyone who takes this beyond that might have to do some soul searching.
This is kind of why I hate woke Hollywood. There are problems in anime, sure, but at least they try to focus on characterization for a lot of the few gems you can find. I remember the film industry and TV industry was never like this. A female character who was strong was memorable. See Ellen Ripley from the Alien franchise or Sarah Connor from The Terminator franchise. I just want a well-written transgender superhero character that isn't shoehorned in for the sake of diversity. I want representation too, but if you're just going to do some cookie cutter bullshit than that's the same as no representation for me.
Thankfully, Ms. Marvel seems to cover some of the core aspects of the trans experience while not even being written as a trans character. I just hope MARVEL tries to make her into some cookie cutter Muslim superhero when her first comic line is actually really good and felt as if she had been around for decades despite being a newer superhero.
@1,324,610 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
This is the first time in a long while that I'm in agreement with you.
@1,324,607 (C)
I say there is from the perspective of people wanting to be themselves. You probably see a lot more people identify this way because they are tired of being shoehorned into one of the two gender categories. It's their way of saying that we're just going to be ourselves, a person with our own unique identity and personality than a typical woman or a typical man. Anyone who takes this beyond that might have to do some soul searching.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 1 year ago, 12 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,648
@previous (La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI)
It’s even better because if anyone criticizes the game/charcter, it’s just because they’re a racist chud that just hates trans/blacks/whatever.
The problem I see with a lot of trans characters, like the one screenshotted in the OP, is they can’t just be trans they have to be LOUDLY trans. It has to be pointed out and signaled. Repeatedly. Unsubtly. Of course it has to be because if a trans character passed too well they would be indistinguishable from a cis character. If they don’t pass well enough, it would look derogatory and mocking.
What I don’t get is why they don’t have a character creation screen and you could just make it be whatever you want and just leave the representation up to the player’s own tastes.
It’s even better because if anyone criticizes the game/charcter, it’s just because they’re a racist chud that just hates trans/blacks/whatever.
The problem I see with a lot of trans characters, like the one screenshotted in the OP, is they can’t just be trans they have to be LOUDLY trans. It has to be pointed out and signaled. Repeatedly. Unsubtly. Of course it has to be because if a trans character passed too well they would be indistinguishable from a cis character. If they don’t pass well enough, it would look derogatory and mocking.
What I don’t get is why they don’t have a character creation screen and you could just make it be whatever you want and just leave the representation up to the player’s own tastes.
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 8 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,671
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Ultimately, that's the thing though, you're going to have to point it out and signal or else you would never indicate to the reader that they are for sure a trans character. This isn't bad per se if you're going for a subtle nod to it, but the issue really is how it's conducted. I think what you're noticing is lazy writing and an overreliance on the flag colors. You can tell when someone was forced to write a trans character and knew nothing on how to actually do it.
So far, this manga Love Me For Who I Am is perhaps the closest thing I've come to accurately portraying the trans experience. I can see why a former friend of mine loves it. The character of Mei is the male-to-female character and her experience is really relatable. The main character is non-binary, but more accurate than even some of the people in real life who claim to be non-binary. I've had two friends tell me that they both considered the possibility of them being non-binary, but one of them decided that they mostly just have disdain for their own gender (male) because of how most males behave. But such emotions and thoughts were similar to the character of Mogumo.
I also think that's what makes lazy writing harmful too. If you actually do write a decent character and highlight a few of the difficulties they have to face both in their personal lives or whatever alter ego they engage with, people are going to consider it virtue signaling regardless. The other possibility is that the character just becomes beloved to a certain demographic. The previous character of Ladiva is one such example of a good trans character and an unique one because she has deep love for her parents that she didn't want to pursue medical transitioning so while she is portrayed as having this strong masculine body (it is a fighting game after all), she just radiates this feminine energy.
It just seems like trans characters are either woke or a joke.
Ultimately, that's the thing though, you're going to have to point it out and signal or else you would never indicate to the reader that they are for sure a trans character. This isn't bad per se if you're going for a subtle nod to it, but the issue really is how it's conducted. I think what you're noticing is lazy writing and an overreliance on the flag colors. You can tell when someone was forced to write a trans character and knew nothing on how to actually do it.
So far, this manga Love Me For Who I Am is perhaps the closest thing I've come to accurately portraying the trans experience. I can see why a former friend of mine loves it. The character of Mei is the male-to-female character and her experience is really relatable. The main character is non-binary, but more accurate than even some of the people in real life who claim to be non-binary. I've had two friends tell me that they both considered the possibility of them being non-binary, but one of them decided that they mostly just have disdain for their own gender (male) because of how most males behave. But such emotions and thoughts were similar to the character of Mogumo.
I also think that's what makes lazy writing harmful too. If you actually do write a decent character and highlight a few of the difficulties they have to face both in their personal lives or whatever alter ego they engage with, people are going to consider it virtue signaling regardless. The other possibility is that the character just becomes beloved to a certain demographic. The previous character of Ladiva is one such example of a good trans character and an unique one because she has deep love for her parents that she didn't want to pursue medical transitioning so while she is portrayed as having this strong masculine body (it is a fighting game after all), she just radiates this feminine energy.
It just seems like trans characters are either woke or a joke.
La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI (OP) double-posted this 1 year ago, 9 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,672
I suppose the solution would be to ignore people who would cry 'woke' or cry about 'a lack of representation' and just write a character as you're going to write it.
Anonymous C replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,676
@1,324,644 (La Reina Catalina !j0siCathyI)
> It's their way of saying that we're just going to be ourselves, a person with our own unique identity and personality than a typical woman or a typical man.
A very special snowflake, in other words.
> It's their way of saying that we're just going to be ourselves, a person with our own unique identity and personality than a typical woman or a typical man.
A very special snowflake, in other words.
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 40 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,679
None of the examples in the @OP are trans. Read the Japanese scripts. Thanks.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
dw !p9hU6ckyqw replied with this 1 year ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,681
Have you seen Gen V op? It has a character who's superpower is changing their gender on command
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,688
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,689
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
I also thought Astolfo was a femboy and not trans.
I also thought Astolfo was a femboy and not trans.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,691
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Its hard to say, because in Japanese media, they constantly call trans women boys. Its very very common
Its hard to say, because in Japanese media, they constantly call trans women boys. Its very very common
!tr.t4dJfuU replied with this 1 year ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,693
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> Its hard to say, because in Japanese media, they constantly call trans women boys. Its very very common
Because they are boys.
"Japan's average IQ is 112.30, making it one of the top countries with the highest IQs."
> Its hard to say, because in Japanese media, they constantly call trans women boys. Its very very common
Because they are boys.
"Japan's average IQ is 112.30, making it one of the top countries with the highest IQs."
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 15 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,695
Anonymous O replied with this 1 year ago, 4 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,713
@1,324,688 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
@1,324,689 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Astolfo is male and identifies as a man. It's not one of those "but I have a shameful secret, I have a penis" situations that is so common in anime.
@1,324,689 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Astolfo is male and identifies as a man. It's not one of those "but I have a shameful secret, I have a penis" situations that is so common in anime.