Topic: Longshoremen are the lubricant of offshoring.
Anonymous A started this discussion 1 year ago #120,969
Let the entitled brats strike, it will force everyone to buy American.Dana joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 3 minutes later[^] [v] #1,323,263
In the meantime, companies will lose inventory and people will lose money and jobs.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 45 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,264
dw !p9hU6ckyqw joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 5 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,270
But they don't make most things in America
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 11 hours later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,350
@1,323,263 (Dana)
routing it thru houston and making too much truck pollution all day. pretty stupid. they should control that.
routing it thru houston and making too much truck pollution all day. pretty stupid. they should control that.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 43 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,356
dw !p9hU6ckyqw replied with this 1 year ago, 8 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,396
RisingThumb !8QC2aOJrlQ joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 7 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,427
@previous (dw !p9hU6ckyqw)
They could just say dock workers but people get annoying when it comes to union stuff or politics.
They could just say dock workers but people get annoying when it comes to union stuff or politics.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,462
@1,323,396 (dw !p9hU6ckyqw)
It's 2024, you can highlight any word and get a definition in seconds.
@previous (RisingThumb !8QC2aOJrlQ)
Meaning what? The union uses the term longshoremen, and I'm not defending the union, so what exactly do you think the word signifies?
Dock workers is equally fine. Dock workers are the lubricant to offshoring.
It's 2024, you can highlight any word and get a definition in seconds.
@previous (RisingThumb !8QC2aOJrlQ)
Meaning what? The union uses the term longshoremen, and I'm not defending the union, so what exactly do you think the word signifies?
Dock workers is equally fine. Dock workers are the lubricant to offshoring.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 15 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,471
dw !p9hU6ckyqw replied with this 1 year ago, 20 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,557
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 17 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,560
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 41 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,567
Dana replied with this 1 year ago, 12 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,651
The strike is about over. They got a huge raise and agreed to stop striking, thank goodness.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 9 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,652
Dana replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,653
@previous (A)
I'd like products to be made in the USA, too. But achieving that through a dockworkers strike would hurt too many Americans the meantime.
I'd like products to be made in the USA, too. But achieving that through a dockworkers strike would hurt too many Americans the meantime.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 6 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,656
@previous (Dana)
Dockworkers already make 6 figures, they weren't hurting.
It's average americans (median salary is 40 thousand) who will pay for their 60% wage increase when that is baked into the price of imported goods.
Too many Americans will be hurt when jobs continue to be offshored.
Dockworkers already make 6 figures, they weren't hurting.
It's average americans (median salary is 40 thousand) who will pay for their 60% wage increase when that is baked into the price of imported goods.
Too many Americans will be hurt when jobs continue to be offshored.
Dana replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,657
@previous (A)
I agree that they make a ton, but my point is that a long strike would bankrupt and unemployed millions of Americans.
I agree that they make a ton, but my point is that a long strike would bankrupt and unemployed millions of Americans.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 5 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,659
@previous (Dana)
Just the people who integrated slave labor into their supply chains.
Banning domestic slavery hurt a lot of people who had invested in it, and depended on the cheap labor too. We can both agree that ripping the band aid off was better than delaying a real solution indefinitely? Reshoring industry has been talked about for many decades and never really been fixed.
Just the people who integrated slave labor into their supply chains.
Banning domestic slavery hurt a lot of people who had invested in it, and depended on the cheap labor too. We can both agree that ripping the band aid off was better than delaying a real solution indefinitely? Reshoring industry has been talked about for many decades and never really been fixed.
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 3 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,681
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 9 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,710
@previous (F)
The ILA union boss has a mansion with a Bentley parked outside a 5 car garage.
That wealth was taken from the people, and they used coercion to get those wages. Illegally blocking access to businesses and using techniques that would be called organized crime anywhere else.
Essential jobs should be paid more, but dockworkers make 10x as much as the median worker for work that is not 10x harder. Simping for a privileged class of overpaid thugs doesn't help the working class.
Some would say "we need to pay the average worker more too!" and I agree, but if we did that the money would have to come from somewhere. It would mean these dockworkers take a pay cut or pay more of their income to taxes or products. In effect putting them back here.
No one should say they are against inequality and then pretend these people need more money.
The ILA union boss has a mansion with a Bentley parked outside a 5 car garage.
That wealth was taken from the people, and they used coercion to get those wages. Illegally blocking access to businesses and using techniques that would be called organized crime anywhere else.
Essential jobs should be paid more, but dockworkers make 10x as much as the median worker for work that is not 10x harder. Simping for a privileged class of overpaid thugs doesn't help the working class.
Some would say "we need to pay the average worker more too!" and I agree, but if we did that the money would have to come from somewhere. It would mean these dockworkers take a pay cut or pay more of their income to taxes or products. In effect putting them back here.
No one should say they are against inequality and then pretend these people need more money.
Lou Briccant joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 13 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,711
@previous (A)
Does the fact that the dockworkers got a huge raise just for threatening a strike change your mind?
Does the fact that the dockworkers got a huge raise just for threatening a strike change your mind?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 52 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,720
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 58 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,739
@1,323,710 (A)
> dockworkers make 10x as much as the median worker for work that is not 10x harder
Since when are wages decided by how hard the work is?
> dockworkers make 10x as much as the median worker for work that is not 10x harder
Since when are wages decided by how hard the work is?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 27 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,748
@previous (F)
They aren't, that's exactly my point.
Why are they being treated like underpaid workers when they are in the upper class?
They aren't, that's exactly my point.
Why are they being treated like underpaid workers when they are in the upper class?
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,750
@previous (A)
Because they have an extremely essential job, upon which hundreds of billions of dollars hang in the balance.
Because they have an extremely essential job, upon which hundreds of billions of dollars hang in the balance.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 6 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,751
@previous (F)
They are a guild that uses intimidation to own an exclusive contract on staffing the ports.
If you needed the union to let you flip burgers at mcdonalds they could get 6 figures too. the anchors on cable news would tell you their strike would make everyone an hour late for work and cost us billions. you'd defend it with "people need to eat".
A gang extorts the country and people celebrate a bentley owner as the savior of the working class.
They are a guild that uses intimidation to own an exclusive contract on staffing the ports.
If you needed the union to let you flip burgers at mcdonalds they could get 6 figures too. the anchors on cable news would tell you their strike would make everyone an hour late for work and cost us billions. you'd defend it with "people need to eat".
A gang extorts the country and people celebrate a bentley owner as the savior of the working class.
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,778
@previous (A)
It's a simple fact that the more required and important a job is, the more it deserves to be paid. As facilitators of the wealth of a superpower, dockers deserve to be one of the highest paid professions in the entire country.
It's a simple fact that the more required and important a job is, the more it deserves to be paid. As facilitators of the wealth of a superpower, dockers deserve to be one of the highest paid professions in the entire country.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 34 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,783
@previous (F)
The union limits staffing at ports to drive up wages, their goal is to enrich themselves, and that comes with costs to the business.
There's no shortage of physically fit people to do this job for half the wage, these are not people filling a limited role. There are millions of people who do work just as demanding, and getting paid minimum wage or less.
The union limits staffing at ports to drive up wages, their goal is to enrich themselves, and that comes with costs to the business.
There's no shortage of physically fit people to do this job for half the wage, these are not people filling a limited role. There are millions of people who do work just as demanding, and getting paid minimum wage or less.
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 7 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,830
@previous (A)
> There are millions of people who do work just as demanding, and getting paid minimum wage or less.
Then perhaps they should orgamize
> There are millions of people who do work just as demanding, and getting paid minimum wage or less.
Then perhaps they should orgamize
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 14 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,906
@previous (F)
Everyone can't make that much money, it's more than is produced even if the wealth is equally distributed.
It's very simple math, if you passed elementary arithmetic you should be able to understand that it's not possible.
Dockworkers make so much because others pay for it. The only way to make this work is inflating the currency so 6 figures no longer means anything.
Everyone can't make that much money, it's more than is produced even if the wealth is equally distributed.
It's very simple math, if you passed elementary arithmetic you should be able to understand that it's not possible.
Dockworkers make so much because others pay for it. The only way to make this work is inflating the currency so 6 figures no longer means anything.
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 13 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,907
@previous (A)
> Dockworkers make so much because others pay for it.
Because they perform an irreplaceable job and look after their own. Good for them!
> Dockworkers make so much because others pay for it.
Because they perform an irreplaceable job and look after their own. Good for them!
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 19 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,985
@previous (F)
They aren't irreplaceable, they stop new talent from competing with them. There's an endless supply of hard workers living in poverty that would snap up these jobs and show up on time every day. Most day laborers would trade up without hesitation.
They have leverage because if the ports hire those people, or implement automation, they threaten to all stop working at once. Not because they have unique work ethic or intellect. That is paid for by the average american working for $40,000 a year. If every American unionized, they could not get those wages because it adds up to more than the country produces.
They aren't irreplaceable, they stop new talent from competing with them. There's an endless supply of hard workers living in poverty that would snap up these jobs and show up on time every day. Most day laborers would trade up without hesitation.
They have leverage because if the ports hire those people, or implement automation, they threaten to all stop working at once. Not because they have unique work ethic or intellect. That is paid for by the average american working for $40,000 a year. If every American unionized, they could not get those wages because it adds up to more than the country produces.
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 10 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,988
@previous (A)
> They have leverage because if the ports hire those people, or implement automation, they threaten to all stop working at once.
And can you tell the class why that might be a bad thing? Is it because the job they do is vital?
> They have leverage because if the ports hire those people, or implement automation, they threaten to all stop working at once.
And can you tell the class why that might be a bad thing? Is it because the job they do is vital?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 7 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,323,992
@previous (F)
Vital jobs should be able to staff their positions, not operate with an artificial scarcity because it enriches a small group of people.
If they were irreplaceable they wouldn't keep asking for the automation to be banned. They are negotiating for that because they know how quickly they can be replaced.
Vital jobs should be able to staff their positions, not operate with an artificial scarcity because it enriches a small group of people.
If they were irreplaceable they wouldn't keep asking for the automation to be banned. They are negotiating for that because they know how quickly they can be replaced.
Anonymous F replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,034
@previous (A)
> Vital jobs should be able to staff their positions
No, the workers of the world should unite and demand their fair share of the profits their work creates.
> Vital jobs should be able to staff their positions
No, the workers of the world should unite and demand their fair share of the profits their work creates.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 20 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,124
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 36 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,324,138
@previous (H)
The dockworkers are luddites, trying to ban the automation that proves their work is obsolete.
Everyone defending them would be claiming textile workers were irreplaceable if automated looms were just beginning to roll out too.
The dockworkers are luddites, trying to ban the automation that proves their work is obsolete.
Everyone defending them would be claiming textile workers were irreplaceable if automated looms were just beginning to roll out too.