Topic: People who want to destroy religion
✄----- !ZSNgHQb5Ig started this discussion 15 years ago #1,204
It is true that science has shown us so much of our past but science wouldn't even exist without religion, religion enabled us to converge and control people to follow rules, had there been no religion our mind would think differently and there is a high chance you wouldn't even exist because we never discover the art of medicine.
You want to destroy that what gave birth to you? Religion may not show us the facts but it is vital for our success.
You want to destroy that what gave birth to you? Religion may not show us the facts but it is vital for our success.
The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #23,304
I also find it amazing that people who believe that God "i a mythical old man in the sky," themselves believe that aliens spawned the human race.
hamfist !XPeqoqTFAE joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,308
I think people who really want to get rid of religion are just trying too hard.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 57 seconds later, 4 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,312
@23,304 (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)
> I also find it amazing that people who believe that God "i a mythical old man in the sky," themselves believe that aliens spawned the human race.
I.. What?
> I also find it amazing that people who believe that God "i a mythical old man in the sky," themselves believe that aliens spawned the human race.
I.. What?
Anonymous E double-posted this 15 years ago, 36 seconds later, 5 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,315
hamfist !XPeqoqTFAE replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,318
Angry Anon replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 9 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,321
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,328
✄----- !ZSNgHQb5Ig (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 39 seconds later, 12 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,331
(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Without religion what fear could we bring to people to force them to obey rules? To work so well with one another. You are missing my point, I am not religious and realise that religion isnt the truth about our world but it controls the behavior of such a large percentage of our world and pretty much all before science was even born. How can you say that the world we live in today would exist? Perhaps we still discovered the art of science at some ridiculously low percentage seeing how everything we do is just coincidence, you are saying that you believe a number so inconcievably low it can only be described as every possible scenario for the past atleast 40,000 years. Think how many things can change in each microsecond of that, on an atomic level the number would be so large it wouldnt even fit on your computer screen. To the point at which we may aswell round it to 0. Then you are no different from a religion believing something which is so unprobable it is practically 0.
Without religion what fear could we bring to people to force them to obey rules? To work so well with one another. You are missing my point, I am not religious and realise that religion isnt the truth about our world but it controls the behavior of such a large percentage of our world and pretty much all before science was even born. How can you say that the world we live in today would exist? Perhaps we still discovered the art of science at some ridiculously low percentage seeing how everything we do is just coincidence, you are saying that you believe a number so inconcievably low it can only be described as every possible scenario for the past atleast 40,000 years. Think how many things can change in each microsecond of that, on an atomic level the number would be so large it wouldnt even fit on your computer screen. To the point at which we may aswell round it to 0. Then you are no different from a religion believing something which is so unprobable it is practically 0.
✄----- !ZSNgHQb5Ig (OP) double-posted this 15 years ago, 20 minutes later, 33 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #23,369
(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Not in the slightest.
Not in the slightest.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #23,469
BOOM BOOM POW
jump !VIfloDyEYo joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,558
First, what does science have to do with anything? There is no "science versus religion." Yes, science tends to destroy religion, but it's not the fault of science. It's not what science sets out to do. It is a by product of searching for truth and understanding.
Also, people were "controlled" before religion. You have very incorrect views of human history. You assume all religions preached a form of morality. Religion does not control the poor or whatever bullshit idiots believe.
Also, people were "controlled" before religion. You have very incorrect views of human history. You assume all religions preached a form of morality. Religion does not control the poor or whatever bullshit idiots believe.
AC !tyLmN8C16E joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,566
@23,304 (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)> I also find it amazing that people who believe that God "i a mythical old man in the sky," themselves believe that aliens spawned the human race.
Lawrence !9p5vCatBBQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,599
> It is true that science has shown us so much of our past but science wouldn't even exist without religion, religion enabled us to converge and control people to follow rules, had there been no religion our mind would think differently and there is a high chance you wouldn't even exist because we never discover the art of medicine.
Holy run-on sentence. The way you write is almost incomprehensible. Also, what?
> And there is a high chance you wouldn't even exist because we never discover the art of medicine.
Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Smoke less.
Holy run-on sentence. The way you write is almost incomprehensible. Also, what?
> And there is a high chance you wouldn't even exist because we never discover the art of medicine.
Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Smoke less.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 48 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,616
> but science wouldn't even exist without religion
Sure, but you can outgrow something and move on to better things. We don't need angry gods to explain earthquakes and thunder anymore. We don't need things like alchemy or prayer or mystical energy to manufacture goods or produce medicines. We have moved on from those childish explanations.
A lot of people still find comfort in religion and organize around it to form social groups and keep order. This societal function of religion can be a good thing in tribal societies or tight-knit social groups, and it can be the justification for terrible atrocities on a larger social scale. I will be glad when we finally outgrow the need for religion to serve as a crutch for social cohesion.
Sure, but you can outgrow something and move on to better things. We don't need angry gods to explain earthquakes and thunder anymore. We don't need things like alchemy or prayer or mystical energy to manufacture goods or produce medicines. We have moved on from those childish explanations.
A lot of people still find comfort in religion and organize around it to form social groups and keep order. This societal function of religion can be a good thing in tribal societies or tight-knit social groups, and it can be the justification for terrible atrocities on a larger social scale. I will be glad when we finally outgrow the need for religion to serve as a crutch for social cohesion.
Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,620
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,626
The fact that it's a big part of our history is irrelevant. Ritual sacrifice and witch hunting were also significant parts of our history.
The only things it gives us success in are conflict and stupidity.
The only things it gives us success in are conflict and stupidity.
(Edited 19 seconds later.)
Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2 replied with this 15 years ago, 22 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,641
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Religion gives us purpose, meaning, inspiration, goals and changes the focus of people from themselves to others.
Religion gives us purpose, meaning, inspiration, goals and changes the focus of people from themselves to others.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 41 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,642
@previous (Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2)
We don't need religion for those, mountainman. You trolling.
We don't need religion for those, mountainman. You trolling.
Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,645
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,647
@23,641 (Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2)
So do other things -- actual, real things. We need to learn that we don't need fairy stories to live our lives.
So do other things -- actual, real things. We need to learn that we don't need fairy stories to live our lives.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,650
jump !VIfloDyEYo replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,653
@23,641 (Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2)
No. Civilization does that. Religion, for a large part of human history, was something turned to for aid beyond human ability (assistance with illness or child birth or drought, etc.). It is a thing born of ignorance that cannot provide any benefit to humanity that does not already exist without religions influence. Humanity has depended on peaceful coexistence for a very long time.
@OP is assuming that religion has been the christian model for all existence, when it's far from that. Morality existed before it was preached by religion. Our morality is born of what has worked to keep civilization prosperous. There is no real right and wrong. There is what works and what hinders population growth and prosperity.
Religion really has no benefit to anyone but those who use it for power. Yes, it CAN control people, but it's not needed to keep people peaceful and morale.
No. Civilization does that. Religion, for a large part of human history, was something turned to for aid beyond human ability (assistance with illness or child birth or drought, etc.). It is a thing born of ignorance that cannot provide any benefit to humanity that does not already exist without religions influence. Humanity has depended on peaceful coexistence for a very long time.
@OP is assuming that religion has been the christian model for all existence, when it's far from that. Morality existed before it was preached by religion. Our morality is born of what has worked to keep civilization prosperous. There is no real right and wrong. There is what works and what hinders population growth and prosperity.
Religion really has no benefit to anyone but those who use it for power. Yes, it CAN control people, but it's not needed to keep people peaceful and morale.
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,655
@OP
Basically you're saying people wouldn't have come to the realization that stealing, killing, and other sins are bad without religion being around. I'm pretty sure people would have started realizing that murdering someone for fun isn't bad. We don't need religion to tell us that. It's common sense.
Basically you're saying people wouldn't have come to the realization that stealing, killing, and other sins are bad without religion being around. I'm pretty sure people would have started realizing that murdering someone for fun isn't bad. We don't need religion to tell us that. It's common sense.
Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,657
Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2 double-posted this 15 years ago, 17 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,658
Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2 triple-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,659
@23,653 (jump !VIfloDyEYo)
> Humanity has depended on peaceful coexistence for a very long time.
but we haven't had that, how does your theory work?
> Humanity has depended on peaceful coexistence for a very long time.
but we haven't had that, how does your theory work?
jump !VIfloDyEYo replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,660
@previous (Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2)
What? Does your neighbor come over and steal your shit and rape your womenfolk?
Human progress requires peaceful coexistence. Even during a war, it's required that your side coexists peacefully to keep functioning.
It doesnt mean every person is peaceful.
What? Does your neighbor come over and steal your shit and rape your womenfolk?
Human progress requires peaceful coexistence. Even during a war, it's required that your side coexists peacefully to keep functioning.
It doesnt mean every person is peaceful.
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,661
@23,657 (Concerned Minion !zsHKjJavn2)
People find purpose, meaning, and inspiration wherever they can. Do well for yourself. Start a family. Make a lasting impact. Contribute to something that will outlast you. Build a community for your family to live in and thrive. See to your children, and teach them to do the same. These are all pretty common ideas that don't necessarily require a magical friend to help you along in life.
It's nice when children get along and share because they think Santa will bring them presents, but it's just a stepping stone. We can set goals and thrive as a society without an imaginary friend. It will be nice when we can all let go and do it on or own.
People find purpose, meaning, and inspiration wherever they can. Do well for yourself. Start a family. Make a lasting impact. Contribute to something that will outlast you. Build a community for your family to live in and thrive. See to your children, and teach them to do the same. These are all pretty common ideas that don't necessarily require a magical friend to help you along in life.
It's nice when children get along and share because they think Santa will bring them presents, but it's just a stepping stone. We can set goals and thrive as a society without an imaginary friend. It will be nice when we can all let go and do it on or own.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,667
Eliminating religion is unrealistic, simply because society and the human mind do. not. work. that way.
IT either goes away by itself or it becomes strenghtened by the efforts to detroy it.
IT either goes away by itself or it becomes strenghtened by the efforts to detroy it.
jump !VIfloDyEYo replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,669
@previous (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
If your method to destroy religion is education it is very possible.
Of course, you need to work on the young. You have to accept the others are lost causes. Once fully indoctrinated it's pretty much done.
If your method to destroy religion is education it is very possible.
Of course, you need to work on the young. You have to accept the others are lost causes. Once fully indoctrinated it's pretty much done.
(Edited 40 seconds later.)
Nexus !jNexusRe/. joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,679
@23,667 (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
I do agree with you saying that religion cannot be eliminated, but I think religion will eventually shrink in number. More and more people are becoming atheist, or at least are starting to doubt a God "existing". In any case, the farther science advances, the more convincing to the general masses it will become, I guess you could say seeing is believing.
I do agree with you saying that religion cannot be eliminated, but I think religion will eventually shrink in number. More and more people are becoming atheist, or at least are starting to doubt a God "existing". In any case, the farther science advances, the more convincing to the general masses it will become, I guess you could say seeing is believing.
Anonymous N replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,680
@previous (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
That's how I try to explain it to people. The more science that advances the more proof we either have or don't have of God(s) existing. I like to mention that because it's true and people can't deny that. As technology gets better, so does science and everything else.
That's how I try to explain it to people. The more science that advances the more proof we either have or don't have of God(s) existing. I like to mention that because it's true and people can't deny that. As technology gets better, so does science and everything else.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 46 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,684
@23,669 (jump !VIfloDyEYo)
@23,679 (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
Indeed.
On the other hand; what's the harm in religion if it doesn't hinder science?
@23,679 (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
Indeed.
On the other hand; what's the harm in religion if it doesn't hinder science?
Nega !34Kas0OdzM double-posted this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,688
@23,680 (N)
> That's how I try to explain it to people. The more science that advances the more proof we either have or don't have of God(s) existing.
Nope.
The more you understand this reality, the less you see it as something that "just works by Deity's will and divine decree" and more as a highly complex system of action and reaction, but this understanding doesn't eliminate the possibility of other realities.
> That's how I try to explain it to people. The more science that advances the more proof we either have or don't have of God(s) existing.
Nope.
The more you understand this reality, the less you see it as something that "just works by Deity's will and divine decree" and more as a highly complex system of action and reaction, but this understanding doesn't eliminate the possibility of other realities.
(Edited 34 seconds later.)
Meowth replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,693
Nexus !jNexusRe/. replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,698
@23,684 (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
It creates another reason for humans to kill each other over. If we ever expect to advance, we cannot be having petty little fights over who's god is better.
It creates another reason for humans to kill each other over. If we ever expect to advance, we cannot be having petty little fights over who's god is better.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,701
@previous (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
> It creates another reason for humans to kill each other over. If we ever expect to advance, we cannot be having petty little fights over who's god is better.
Ah, but ideology is a Twisted Sister of "Bad" Religion, and I don't see everybody becoming centrist in the future.
Face it; as long as humans feel, society will never reach a healthy Equillibrium.
The Professional production of hatred is a lucrative business for a lot of people, and has been for a long, long time.
> It creates another reason for humans to kill each other over. If we ever expect to advance, we cannot be having petty little fights over who's god is better.
Ah, but ideology is a Twisted Sister of "Bad" Religion, and I don't see everybody becoming centrist in the future.
Face it; as long as humans feel, society will never reach a healthy Equillibrium.
The Professional production of hatred is a lucrative business for a lot of people, and has been for a long, long time.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,703
@23,698 (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
This. Religion is responsible for a lot of conflict.
For example, it drove a man to murder an abortion doctor who had a wife and kids. This is awful, and might not have happened were it not for his religious fundamentalism.
@23,679 (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
Thank God for that! ;)
This. Religion is responsible for a lot of conflict.
For example, it drove a man to murder an abortion doctor who had a wife and kids. This is awful, and might not have happened were it not for his religious fundamentalism.
@23,679 (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
Thank God for that! ;)
(Edited 20 seconds later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,704
@23,701 (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
I doubt that we'll every have a totally stable and safe world community, but religion sometimes causes conflict. All on its own. Less of it would mean slightly fewer conflicts.
I doubt that we'll every have a totally stable and safe world community, but religion sometimes causes conflict. All on its own. Less of it would mean slightly fewer conflicts.
jump !VIfloDyEYo replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,736
@23,684 (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
It hinders science. Stem cell research and science education in the US are too biggies.
It hinders science. Stem cell research and science education in the US are too biggies.
✄----- !ZSNgHQb5Ig (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 16 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,737
@23,698 (Nexus !jNexusRe/.)
Most of our greatest advancements happen during war.
@23,558 (jump !VIfloDyEYo)
What are you basing this theory on? The earliest artifacts we find are those of religious descent such as the Venus of Willendorf except for pieces of human skeleton which predate it. You think the control one man has over another is enough to control a empire? Religion has ultimate control because you cannot compete with god nor can you hide from him, if you do this... this WILL happen. People are missing the point here, religion is a very cleverly structured device for making people act in certain ways, so they believe in god so what? They will break less laws than those without religion simply because they fear a higher power.
Most of our greatest advancements happen during war.
@23,558 (jump !VIfloDyEYo)
What are you basing this theory on? The earliest artifacts we find are those of religious descent such as the Venus of Willendorf except for pieces of human skeleton which predate it. You think the control one man has over another is enough to control a empire? Religion has ultimate control because you cannot compete with god nor can you hide from him, if you do this... this WILL happen. People are missing the point here, religion is a very cleverly structured device for making people act in certain ways, so they believe in god so what? They will break less laws than those without religion simply because they fear a higher power.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,743
@23,736 (jump !VIfloDyEYo)
> It hinders science. Stem cell research and science education in the US are two biggies.
That's being done by one flavour of one certain religion, not all of them~
> It hinders science. Stem cell research and science education in the US are two biggies.
That's being done by one flavour of one certain religion, not all of them~
Anonymous R joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 14 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,748
@23,304 (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)
> I also find it amazing that people who believe that God "i a mythical old man in the sky," themselves believe that aliens spawned the human race.
What the hell are you talking about?
> I also find it amazing that people who believe that God "i a mythical old man in the sky," themselves believe that aliens spawned the human race.
What the hell are you talking about?
Anonymous S joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 20 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,755
@previous (R)
It's a legitimate theory as to how life started on Earth. Someday we might send simply lifeforms to planets to terraform them.
It's a legitimate theory as to how life started on Earth. Someday we might send simply lifeforms to planets to terraform them.