Topic: So there were no ghosts and the governess was a repressed nonce who squeezed the boy to death?
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc started this discussion 1 year ago #117,638
Didn't see that coming. Great book. Hard as fuck to read in places though. Very florid style.
Gonna watch/listen to Benjamin Britten's opera adaptation tonight.
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 30 minutes later[^] [v] #1,294,608
The name of the book reveals the secret. It's like the time I read the book "John dies at the end" and John died at the end.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 10 minutes later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,610
@OPedophile
Remember on Easter Sunday, you got trolled so bad, that you locked over a dozen threads, then cried when a mod unlocked them?
Good times!
Remember on Easter Sunday, you got trolled so bad, that you locked over a dozen threads, then cried when a mod unlocked them?
Good times!
Erik !saAqdaazn2 joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 29 seconds later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,611
What's your favourite dickens book? Mine is tale of two cities as it's the only one I've read.
Anonymous C replied with this 1 year ago, 13 seconds later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,612
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 27 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,621
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 47 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,622
@1,294,611 (Erik !saAqdaazn2)
> What's your favourite dickens book? Mine is tale of two cities as it's the only one I've read.
Very difficult to say. Bleak House is probably his masterpiece but it's not an easy read. David Copperfield is his most entertaining. Tale of Two Cities may contain the greatest last 100 pages in all of English literature but the first 2 thirds of the book are a slog. Dombey and Son is his most moving and purely beautiful so I'll probably go with that one.
> What's your favourite dickens book? Mine is tale of two cities as it's the only one I've read.
Very difficult to say. Bleak House is probably his masterpiece but it's not an easy read. David Copperfield is his most entertaining. Tale of Two Cities may contain the greatest last 100 pages in all of English literature but the first 2 thirds of the book are a slog. Dombey and Son is his most moving and purely beautiful so I'll probably go with that one.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,623
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,624
@1,294,622 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
I enjoyed the Christmas one with Scrooge. I first watched the Muppets version, and find it so enjoyable that I moved onto the book.
I enjoyed the Christmas one with Scrooge. I first watched the Muppets version, and find it so enjoyable that I moved onto the book.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 34 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,630
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 2 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,653
@1,294,624 (Jorge !l6aiEdTxng)
> I enjoyed the Christmas one with Scrooge.
A Christmas Carol. Yeah, it's a classic.
> I enjoyed the Christmas one with Scrooge.
A Christmas Carol. Yeah, it's a classic.
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) double-posted this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,654
@1,294,630 (F)
> enis
> Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about classic Victorian literature!
You're welcome. I try to bring an affable urbanity to the forum.
> enis
> Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about classic Victorian literature!
You're welcome. I try to bring an affable urbanity to the forum.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 3 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,655
Anonymous C replied with this 1 year ago, 25 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,656
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,672
Anonymous C replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,674
Anonymous G replied with this 1 year ago, 8 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,676
Indie the Grate replied with this 1 year ago, 33 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,694
@1,294,654 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
> > enis
> > Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about pedophilia!
>
> You're welcome. I try to bring a firehose of sleazy noncery to the forum.
You are succeeding.
> > enis
> > Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about pedophilia!
>
> You're welcome. I try to bring a firehose of sleazy noncery to the forum.
You are succeeding.
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 15 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,697
@previous (Indie the Grate)
> > > Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about classic Victorian literature!
> >
> > You're welcome. I try to bring an affable urbanity to the forum
>
> You are succeeding.
Thank you :)
> > > Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about classic Victorian literature!
> >
> > You're welcome. I try to bring an affable urbanity to the forum
>
> You are succeeding.
Thank you :)
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) double-posted this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,698
@1,294,655 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> I like his book called Night Walks
Yes, his non-fiction was often as powerful as his fiction. Nobody described London and its quirky smorgasbord of citizens quite like him.
> I like his book called Night Walks
Yes, his non-fiction was often as powerful as his fiction. Nobody described London and its quirky smorgasbord of citizens quite like him.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Indie the Grate replied with this 1 year ago, 5 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,700
@1,294,697 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)> 1:@1,294,694 (Indie the Grate)
>
> > > > Oh look, It's Dave with another thread about pedophilia!
> > >
> > > You're welcome. I try to bring a firehose of sleazy noncery to the forum.
> >
> > You are succeeding.
>
> Thank you :3
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,701
Anonymous G replied with this 1 year ago, 6 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,702
You really just read this for the first time?
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 13 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,703
@previous (G)
Yes. The last 'horror classic' I still hadn't read. I had to read Henry James at university and was put off by his unbearably prolix style ("a ponderously warm manner of saying nothing in infinite sentences" as Thomas Hardy described it).
Yes. The last 'horror classic' I still hadn't read. I had to read Henry James at university and was put off by his unbearably prolix style ("a ponderously warm manner of saying nothing in infinite sentences" as Thomas Hardy described it).
Indie the Grate replied with this 1 year ago, 22 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,704
@1,294,701 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
This just won't do, Dave thought to himself, standing up and slapping the palm of his hand against the side of his head. "It just. Won't DO!" he let out in a hoarse monotone that buillt to a roaring crescendo, pausing between each syllable to take a deep breath. "IT! JUST! WON'T! FUCKING! DO!" he bellowed, and then pushed his left fist all the way into his mouth, repeatedly slapping the back of his back of his head until he began to see stars in front of his eyes. "YOU FUCKING CUNTS!" screamed Dave at the top of his voice, squeezing out the words in a muffled girlish shriek that burned the inside of his throat. "YOU FUCKING CUNTS! YOU DISOBEDIENT FUCKING CUNTS! YOU FUCKING DISOBEDIENT CUNTS! YOU! FUCKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YOU FUCKING CUNTS DISOBEDIENT BASTARDS!" he screeched, now pounding his closed fist against the back of his head and biting down so hard on his other fist that he began to draw blood.
Then Dave stopped.
A soothing calmness washed over him.
He sat back down in front of his computer and wiped the spittle off his monitor and keyboard, and then he began to type:
":)", typed Dave, and then he clicked the Post button.
This just won't do, Dave thought to himself, standing up and slapping the palm of his hand against the side of his head. "It just. Won't DO!" he let out in a hoarse monotone that buillt to a roaring crescendo, pausing between each syllable to take a deep breath. "IT! JUST! WON'T! FUCKING! DO!" he bellowed, and then pushed his left fist all the way into his mouth, repeatedly slapping the back of his back of his head until he began to see stars in front of his eyes. "YOU FUCKING CUNTS!" screamed Dave at the top of his voice, squeezing out the words in a muffled girlish shriek that burned the inside of his throat. "YOU FUCKING CUNTS! YOU DISOBEDIENT FUCKING CUNTS! YOU FUCKING DISOBEDIENT CUNTS! YOU! FUCKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YOU FUCKING CUNTS DISOBEDIENT BASTARDS!" he screeched, now pounding his closed fist against the back of his head and biting down so hard on his other fist that he began to draw blood.
Then Dave stopped.
A soothing calmness washed over him.
He sat back down in front of his computer and wiped the spittle off his monitor and keyboard, and then he began to type:
":)", typed Dave, and then he clicked the Post button.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,705
Anonymous G replied with this 1 year ago, 19 seconds later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,706
Anonymous G double-posted this 1 year ago, 16 seconds later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,707
Anonymous H replied with this 1 year ago, 3 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,708
Indie the Grate replied with this 1 year ago, 17 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,713
Anonymous H replied with this 1 year ago, 6 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,715
Indie the Grate replied with this 1 year ago, 8 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,717
Anonymous G replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,720
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,723
@1,294,656 (C)
I do not require vacations, as I enjoy my work clowning in the circus very much! Which is your favorite Dicken's novel?
I do not require vacations, as I enjoy my work clowning in the circus very much! Which is your favorite Dicken's novel?
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 4 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,724
@previous (Jorge !l6aiEdTxng)
> Which is your favorite Dickens novel?
Bless you for striving to keep this thread on track, friend!
> Which is your favorite Dickens novel?
Bless you for striving to keep this thread on track, friend!
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 2 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,726
She squeezed him to death?
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC double-posted this 1 year ago, 33 seconds later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,727
Anonymous H replied with this 1 year ago, 4 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,728
@1,294,717 (Indie the Grate)
Matthew Rosteet Miller, aka Fatfuck, Depressionman, Indy and Indie the Grate, is a fat, disgusting pedophile who was caught demanding "open leg vulva" selfies from an underaged girl. He should have been immediately reported to the authorities, but people at the time were more interested in ridiculing his deceased relatives than getting the filthy nonce off the streets. The practice continues to the present day while this loathsome kiddie-fiddler attempts to justify his blatantly pedophillic interests. Thanks, you're welcome.
Matthew Rosteet Miller, aka Fatfuck, Depressionman, Indy and Indie the Grate, is a fat, disgusting pedophile who was caught demanding "open leg vulva" selfies from an underaged girl. He should have been immediately reported to the authorities, but people at the time were more interested in ridiculing his deceased relatives than getting the filthy nonce off the streets. The practice continues to the present day while this loathsome kiddie-fiddler attempts to justify his blatantly pedophillic interests. Thanks, you're welcome.
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,731
@1,294,726 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> She squeezed him to death?
It's incredibly ambiguous, but that's my interpretation, yes.
> She squeezed him to death?
It's incredibly ambiguous, but that's my interpretation, yes.
Indie the Grate replied with this 1 year ago, 9 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,736
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 26 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,743
@1,294,731 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
Please tell me more abput the context that lead to this idea. I'm curious
Please tell me more abput the context that lead to this idea. I'm curious
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 19 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,745
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
It's not easily done in brief (and I'm typing on my phone here). It's a very complex novel with no real resolution and open to a vast span of interpretation. But it all hinges on whether the reader believes a) that the ghosts the governess sees are real, b) that the ghosts are figments of her sexually repressed psyche and that the children's "perfect beauty and innocence" is masking their evil, or c) the governess herself is monstrously evil and a highly unreliable narrator of events because her stunted sexual and emotional development has given her a warped and unnatural obsession with "innocence" which has sickened into a sexualisation of it (as happens in the Catholic Church for example). The book ends with the governess clasping Miles (the boy) very tightly to her breast and holding him there for a full minute. When she finally releases him, he is dead. If you believe the ghosts are real then he arguably died of fright. If you don't - as I don't - then it's some other explanation.
It's not easily done in brief (and I'm typing on my phone here). It's a very complex novel with no real resolution and open to a vast span of interpretation. But it all hinges on whether the reader believes a) that the ghosts the governess sees are real, b) that the ghosts are figments of her sexually repressed psyche and that the children's "perfect beauty and innocence" is masking their evil, or c) the governess herself is monstrously evil and a highly unreliable narrator of events because her stunted sexual and emotional development has given her a warped and unnatural obsession with "innocence" which has sickened into a sexualisation of it (as happens in the Catholic Church for example). The book ends with the governess clasping Miles (the boy) very tightly to her breast and holding him there for a full minute. When she finally releases him, he is dead. If you believe the ghosts are real then he arguably died of fright. If you don't - as I don't - then it's some other explanation.
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) double-posted this 1 year ago, 6 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,746
@1,294,743 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> Please tell me more abput the context that lead to this idea. I'm curious
For what it's worth, here is the ending of the 1961 film adaptation with Deborah Kerr:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4dJlV_BM20U
They've changed the actual manner of his death but the last 20 seconds or so are very telling. It seems the director had roughly the same interpretation as me regarding the governess' psyche.
> Please tell me more abput the context that lead to this idea. I'm curious
For what it's worth, here is the ending of the 1961 film adaptation with Deborah Kerr:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4dJlV_BM20U
They've changed the actual manner of his death but the last 20 seconds or so are very telling. It seems the director had roughly the same interpretation as me regarding the governess' psyche.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 28 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,750
@1,294,745 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
I've read that the Victorians were the ones who started heavily fetishizing innocence
I've read that the Victorians were the ones who started heavily fetishizing innocence
Anonymous G replied with this 1 year ago, 57 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,751
I choose to believe the ghosts are real.
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 7 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,755
@1,294,750 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> I've read that the Victorians were the ones who started heavily fetishizing innocence
In literature I agree, but I'd argue the deeply unhealthy obsession with "purity" and "innocence" can be traced back to religion. No more hysterical example can be found than the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, where the idea that Jesus' mother was anything other than totally untouched was abhorrent to the Church hierarchs. Have you seen the Lucio Fulci film Don't Torture A Duckling? It deals with this very issue.
> I've read that the Victorians were the ones who started heavily fetishizing innocence
In literature I agree, but I'd argue the deeply unhealthy obsession with "purity" and "innocence" can be traced back to religion. No more hysterical example can be found than the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, where the idea that Jesus' mother was anything other than totally untouched was abhorrent to the Church hierarchs. Have you seen the Lucio Fulci film Don't Torture A Duckling? It deals with this very issue.
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,756
@1,294,750 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
The Victorians are the ones who came up with the concept of the ideal of childhood innocence.
The Victorians are the ones who came up with the concept of the ideal of childhood innocence.
Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) replied with this 1 year ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,759
Check it out. Great film about innocence being destroyed under the cover of piety.Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc (OP) double-posted this 1 year ago, 3 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,760
@1,294,756 (Jorge !l6aiEdTxng)
> The Victorians are the ones who came up with the concept of the ideal of childhood innocence.
While ironically/hypocritically setting them to work as chimney sweeps and workhouse slaves. Per this thread's intention, see Oliver Twist for example, or The Old Curiosity Shop. Dickens lambasted this hypocrisy.
> The Victorians are the ones who came up with the concept of the ideal of childhood innocence.
While ironically/hypocritically setting them to work as chimney sweeps and workhouse slaves. Per this thread's intention, see Oliver Twist for example, or The Old Curiosity Shop. Dickens lambasted this hypocrisy.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 10 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,761
@1,294,755 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
@1,294,756 (Jorge !l6aiEdTxng)
A question. Do you think Lewis Carroll was a pedophile?
@1,294,756 (Jorge !l6aiEdTxng)
A question. Do you think Lewis Carroll was a pedophile?
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 21 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,933
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
Although on the balance of probabilities he may have had sexual thoughts towards children, he did not seem to have actually abused any of them, and none of the "child friends" he made have ever came forward with any kind of allegation that he did so - on the contrary, he was widely praised as being a good and upright man.
He was known to have taken photographic nudes of children, four of three thousand. But I have to consider that body studies were not uncommon among Victorians and that his diaries showed that he was enthusiastic about photographing anything interesting, including fish skeletons.
Therefore, I cannot say for certain that he was a pedophile, although he may have been, but I do not think that he was a child molester or abuser and I think it may well be the case that he has been the victim of unkind rumors.
Although on the balance of probabilities he may have had sexual thoughts towards children, he did not seem to have actually abused any of them, and none of the "child friends" he made have ever came forward with any kind of allegation that he did so - on the contrary, he was widely praised as being a good and upright man.
He was known to have taken photographic nudes of children, four of three thousand. But I have to consider that body studies were not uncommon among Victorians and that his diaries showed that he was enthusiastic about photographing anything interesting, including fish skeletons.
Therefore, I cannot say for certain that he was a pedophile, although he may have been, but I do not think that he was a child molester or abuser and I think it may well be the case that he has been the victim of unkind rumors.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 16 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,936
@previous (Jorge !l6aiEdTxng)
I've heard his family threw out some of his photos that they deemed to be too inappropriate
I've heard his family threw out some of his photos that they deemed to be too inappropriate
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,294,938
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
It's possible, but there are equal chances that this is an untrue rumor.
It was not unheard of for family members to expunge the work of famous people after their death. A famous example is the daughter of Queen Victoria, who burned her mother's diaries and rewrote them with censorship.
It's possible, but there are equal chances that this is an untrue rumor.
It was not unheard of for family members to expunge the work of famous people after their death. A famous example is the daughter of Queen Victoria, who burned her mother's diaries and rewrote them with censorship.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 1 year ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,295,004
Jorge !l6aiEdTxng replied with this 1 year ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,295,011
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
I believe the original was eventually released, although I am uncertain if the father chose to do it or if it was done after his own death.
I believe the original was eventually released, although I am uncertain if the father chose to do it or if it was done after his own death.