Topic: Let's face it, the world would be better off without religion.
!VoCaLoNunI started this discussion 15 years ago #11,625
That is all. No discussion, no flame wars, no "YOUR RELIGION IS DUMB" "NO U" shit, that is all.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later[^] [v] #209,362
Guaranteed replies.jpg
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,364
Nah, there'd be too much uncertainty. People hate that.
Ks !KansasxqvM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 32 seconds later, 2 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,365
No poll?
cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,370
How so?
What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
Why is it you think religious people are happier in general?
What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
Why is it you think religious people are happier in general?
brie !OudrPWaUDQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,372
a world without religion would promptly form one.
Ks !KansasxqvM replied with this 15 years ago, 44 seconds later, 8 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,373
Handel !khEOdtKF56 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,376
@209,364 (C)
> Nah, there'd be too much uncertainty. People hate that.
What's so uncertain about acknowledging there is no god, compared to believing there is a god?
@209,370 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
> What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
- No more religious wars.
- Giving money that goes to churches to charity instead.
- Indoctrination into said religions.
- No more leniency given to criminals belonging to certain major religions.
> Why is it you think religious people are happier in general?
They think they are happy, only because church people have filled them with false promises. If I was promised eternal life after death I'd be pretty happy too.
> Nah, there'd be too much uncertainty. People hate that.
What's so uncertain about acknowledging there is no god, compared to believing there is a god?
@209,370 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
> What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
- No more religious wars.
- Giving money that goes to churches to charity instead.
- Indoctrination into said religions.
- No more leniency given to criminals belonging to certain major religions.
> Why is it you think religious people are happier in general?
They think they are happy, only because church people have filled them with false promises. If I was promised eternal life after death I'd be pretty happy too.
!VoCaLoNunI (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 32 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #209,405
sluggy joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 6 hours later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,666
How do you know? I would think the reason there is no religion would be very important.
TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 9 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,748
@209,370 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
> How so?
>
> What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
Hmmmmm...
EDIT: Where is my image?
Link: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/BZVhHDzeV0/Rx8DP-Axx5I/AAAAAAAABIU/3VoyNlO7tDc/s320/DarkAges.gif
> How so?
>
> What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
Hmmmmm...
EDIT: Where is my image?
Link: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/BZVhHDzeV0/Rx8DP-Axx5I/AAAAAAAABIU/3VoyNlO7tDc/s320/DarkAges.gif
(Edited 1 minute later.)
cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w replied with this 15 years ago, 49 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,767
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,776
@209,370 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
> What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
The crusades, Jihads, pogroms, probably the Nazis, lots of stonings, lots of homophobia, perverted Catholic priests, fundamentalist violence, aversion to science, lots of intolerance, ect.
> Why is it you think religious people are happier in general?
Why is it that you think cultists are happier in general?
> What specific wrongs do you think would no longer occur without religion?
The crusades, Jihads, pogroms, probably the Nazis, lots of stonings, lots of homophobia, perverted Catholic priests, fundamentalist violence, aversion to science, lots of intolerance, ect.
> Why is it you think religious people are happier in general?
Why is it that you think cultists are happier in general?
cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,793
@previous (J)
But these are all just human things, really. Intolerance for out-groups far preceded religion, it's not like Catholicism turns anyone into a pedo (just look at some of the esteemed posters here), jihad seems much more closely tied to economic frustrations than pure religious sentiment, etc. I think you can make that sort of case for anything you could cite.
And Nazism? Really? How the fuck was that religious?
All the quality-of-life research I've seen shows religious people as being generally happier.
But these are all just human things, really. Intolerance for out-groups far preceded religion, it's not like Catholicism turns anyone into a pedo (just look at some of the esteemed posters here), jihad seems much more closely tied to economic frustrations than pure religious sentiment, etc. I think you can make that sort of case for anything you could cite.
And Nazism? Really? How the fuck was that religious?
All the quality-of-life research I've seen shows religious people as being generally happier.
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,798
In the words of Britt Daniel, "Religion don't mean a thing, it's just another way to be right."
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,800
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,805
@209,793 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
True, I'm not saying that those things would be completely removed with religion (far from it), but they would be significantly lessened. It would be one less major difference between people.
My point was that the Nazis couldn't have scapegoated Jews and riled up Christians if there was no religion. True, they might have found another scapegoat but I think that the Jew hatred they had going was more or less unmatched by anything at the time.
Your last point might be true in some cases, but I for one value truth rather than blind faith, and think that it's better to be free and open-minded then living what I see as a lie. Since this line of debate will probably spill over into a simple argument over wether god exists or not, I think that we should just agree to disagree on this one.
True, I'm not saying that those things would be completely removed with religion (far from it), but they would be significantly lessened. It would be one less major difference between people.
My point was that the Nazis couldn't have scapegoated Jews and riled up Christians if there was no religion. True, they might have found another scapegoat but I think that the Jew hatred they had going was more or less unmatched by anything at the time.
Your last point might be true in some cases, but I for one value truth rather than blind faith, and think that it's better to be free and open-minded then living what I see as a lie. Since this line of debate will probably spill over into a simple argument over wether god exists or not, I think that we should just agree to disagree on this one.
Triptych !LightPenis joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,809
If there wasn't religion, people would find other reasons to fight. And secularism has existed with religion for a long time, now. For example, in the Dark Ages. Sure, Europe was predominantly Christian. But people went about their business and did what they were going to do without reference to Christian ideas.
Another example. Do you think the Holy Roman Emperors were thinking "Gee, is this really in line with the teachings of Christ" when they tried to wrest authority from the Papacy? They didn't give a shit.
Another example. Do you think the Holy Roman Emperors were thinking "Gee, is this really in line with the teachings of Christ" when they tried to wrest authority from the Papacy? They didn't give a shit.
cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,816
@209,800 (L)
@209,805 (J)
Ethnicity, not religion. Could a Jew have just converted and walked away from the problem?
I tend to think other differences would simply become more important without the role of religion. This is just what people are, hateful, irrational, and violent.
@209,805 (J)
Ethnicity, not religion. Could a Jew have just converted and walked away from the problem?
I tend to think other differences would simply become more important without the role of religion. This is just what people are, hateful, irrational, and violent.
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 54 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,817
Anonymous K replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,822
@previous (L)
Jew is also a term used to describe an ethnicity. It's not just about following Judaism.
Jew is also a term used to describe an ethnicity. It's not just about following Judaism.
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,824
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,830
@209,809 (Triptych !LightPenis)
But again, there are some historical conflicts and indeed present day ones that were/are caused by or mostly by religion. Again, the bloodbath that was the crusades wouldn't have happened. You do make a good point that peole would find other things to fight over, but again I can think of a few historical events that had religion as their literal backbone.
And besides, without a religion there would be no Papacy to wrest power from.
@209,816 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
With most Jews in Germany, you couldn't tell that they were Jewish by looking at them at all. Most Jews were very assimilated into German culture by then, expect of course for having their own religion, obviously. The vast majority of them spoke German, celebrated German holidays and couldn't be told apart from a non-Jew. The only thing that set them apart and what the Nazis persecuted them for was their Judaism.
But again, there are some historical conflicts and indeed present day ones that were/are caused by or mostly by religion. Again, the bloodbath that was the crusades wouldn't have happened. You do make a good point that peole would find other things to fight over, but again I can think of a few historical events that had religion as their literal backbone.
And besides, without a religion there would be no Papacy to wrest power from.
@209,816 (cccuuunnttt !nIGga.SL0w)
With most Jews in Germany, you couldn't tell that they were Jewish by looking at them at all. Most Jews were very assimilated into German culture by then, expect of course for having their own religion, obviously. The vast majority of them spoke German, celebrated German holidays and couldn't be told apart from a non-Jew. The only thing that set them apart and what the Nazis persecuted them for was their Judaism.
Anonymous K replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,831
Triptych !LightPenis replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,836
@209,830 (J)
I think I'm right in saying that religion was part of a culture more than anything. And different cultures fought each other. Like all the different tribes that once wandered Europe. They fought each other, too, but I'm not sure that it had a religious reason. Some conflicts would have been prevented, but it's entirely possible that people would have thought of different reasons to go about doing the same things. The Crusades were religious, but do you really think that when the...Aztecs? were being killed, that their slayers were truly trying to follow Christ's teachings?
No, there would have been no Papacy to wrest power from. That doesn't discredit that the Holy Roman Empire really didn't give a shit about Christianity, though.
I think I'm right in saying that religion was part of a culture more than anything. And different cultures fought each other. Like all the different tribes that once wandered Europe. They fought each other, too, but I'm not sure that it had a religious reason. Some conflicts would have been prevented, but it's entirely possible that people would have thought of different reasons to go about doing the same things. The Crusades were religious, but do you really think that when the...Aztecs? were being killed, that their slayers were truly trying to follow Christ's teachings?
No, there would have been no Papacy to wrest power from. That doesn't discredit that the Holy Roman Empire really didn't give a shit about Christianity, though.
TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,838
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,957
@209,836 (Triptych !LightPenis)
I never said that Aztecs being invaded was for religious reasons. Nor, for that matter, do I think that HRE would have been any less "immoral" without religion (and technically, they wouldn't be the Holy Roman Empire then anyway). I'm only referring to events that were inescapably religious, or had religion as a major cause of them. Again, the Crusades and various pogroms have a lot of blood on their hands.
Sure, other conflict-causers might have stepped in to 'pick up the slack' in our hypothetical religion-free timeline, but we have no way of knowing to what degree they would have, so it's a moot point.
I never said that Aztecs being invaded was for religious reasons. Nor, for that matter, do I think that HRE would have been any less "immoral" without religion (and technically, they wouldn't be the Holy Roman Empire then anyway). I'm only referring to events that were inescapably religious, or had religion as a major cause of them. Again, the Crusades and various pogroms have a lot of blood on their hands.
Sure, other conflict-causers might have stepped in to 'pick up the slack' in our hypothetical religion-free timeline, but we have no way of knowing to what degree they would have, so it's a moot point.
Triptych !LightPenis replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,958
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,966
@previous (Triptych !LightPenis)
Do you mean that humanity couldn't/wouldn't develop properly without it? Maybe. Vocalon's entire scenario here is purely hypothetical. For the purpose of this debate, I think we've all assumed that humanity would develop more or less on-course.
Do you mean that humanity couldn't/wouldn't develop properly without it? Maybe. Vocalon's entire scenario here is purely hypothetical. For the purpose of this debate, I think we've all assumed that humanity would develop more or less on-course.
Triptych !LightPenis replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #209,968
@previous (J)
I mean that humanity seems to like having some sort of a leader who knows all. Often known as a government.
But sometimes the government doesn't know all either. And people have always been interested in the origins of the universe, the human race, etc. In this case it's convenient to have a religion.
I mean that humanity seems to like having some sort of a leader who knows all. Often known as a government.
But sometimes the government doesn't know all either. And people have always been interested in the origins of the universe, the human race, etc. In this case it's convenient to have a religion.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #210,089
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #210,186
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Disgusting. Pretending the Illuminati Bankers weren't entirely behind the Holocaust and Hitler's rise to power.
Disgusting. Pretending the Illuminati Bankers weren't entirely behind the Holocaust and Hitler's rise to power.