Topic: Obama to cut $100 BILLION from Pell Grants for Low Income Students

Anonymous A started this discussion 15 years ago #1,127

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41560704/ns/us_news-life/

Tax-cuts for the wealthy, cutting college assistance for the needy.

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later[^] [v] #21,766

More like cutting assistance for unemployed alcoholics.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 29 minutes later, 37 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,806

15% rate for all, universal healthcare and welfare provided, and defence-only military. THis is how one makes a great nation.

Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 38 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,807

THIS THREAD IS BALLS.

The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 13 minutes later, 52 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,823

Hope and change yo

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 55 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,827

@previous (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)
All we have is hope that the next president can change any of this for the better...

Nexus !jNexusRe/. joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 56 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,828

@previous (A)
lol 10/10

Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 seconds later, 56 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,829

@21,806 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
Tell me more, I like the sound of this.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 58 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,830

@previous (G)
By 15% rate I mean tax rate.
It would be much like Hong Kong but instead of being tied down by the PRC it would be in America.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 53 seconds later, 59 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #21,831

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
A flat tax rate is inherently regressive.

Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,832

@21,827 (A)

> All we have is hope that the next president can change any of this for the better...

HAH

The next president will be Obama. There is really no other democratic choice besides hillary which is just as bad if not worse.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 21 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,833

@21,831 (A)
But it is the only way to provide an equal system of taxation instead of punishing one class for being too high, low, etc.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,834

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> But it is the only way to provide an equal system of taxation instead of punishing one class for being too high, low, etc.

Yeah you're right we need to give the rich people all the money so they will give the rest of our jobs. Flawless plan.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,836

@previous (H)
If you tax them too high, they will move elsewhere. You should know this. They are a great source of revenue and should not be lost due to greedy government.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,838

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> If you tax them too high, they will move elsewhere. You should know this. They are a great source of revenue and should not be lost due to greedy government.

Move elsewhere. Hahahahahaha. Greedy government. Oh fuck man you're killing me.

Yeah we should just eliminate the government they aren't useful for anything. Eliminate all regulation too.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,839

Some one thinks John Galt is a real guy...

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 54 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,840

@21,831 (A)
A regressive tax isn't necessarily bad though.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 4 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,841

@21,838 (H)
Regulation is necessary yes, but you seem to forget that the government can be just as greedy as corporations. We need corporation for tax revenue, and corporation gives us good product for our money. This system allows for a socialistic welfare state without excessive taxes.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 double-posted this 15 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,843

@21,839 (A)
Atlas is not real, but Hong Kong is.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,846

@21,838 (H)
That's a silly idea!

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,850

@21,841 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> Regulation is necessary yes, but you seem to forget that the government can be just as greedy as corporations. We need corporation for tax revenue, and corporation gives us good product for our money. This system allows for a socialistic welfare state without excessive taxes.

Currently the rich and large corporations make gigantic profit margins while subverting paying taxes. It would be in the best interest of the country to build up infrastructure to have the people with the most money pay more taxes.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,853

@previous (H)
In this system, every worker makes a share, and every worker gives a share.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,855

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> In this system, every worker makes a share, and every worker gives a share.

While the wealthy take 90 shares and give 1 share.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,856

@21,850 (H)
Why would that benefit the country?

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 25 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,857

@previous (G)

> Why would that benefit the country?

Derp

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,858

@21,855 (H)
Everyone only gets.one share back though, so It's fair.

Anonymous G double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,860

@21,855 (H)
Everyone only gets.one share back though, so It's fair.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 26 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,861

@21,858 (G)

> Everyone only gets.one share back though, so It's fair.

Yeah except it doesn't really work out that way especially with more than 10% of people living below the poverty threshold.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 22 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,862

@21,857 (H)
No, please explain.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 40 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,864

@previous (G)

> No, please explain.

more than 10% of people living below the poverty threshold.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 23 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,865

@21,855 (H)
The wealthy CEO and the ones on top have to oversee an entire corporation at the demands of the shareholders and the board of directors.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 33 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,866

And mind you the poverty threshold is like 17k a year which is extremely low. Probably a ton of people living under 30k.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,867

@21,861 (H)
Explain why that affects the equation.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 4 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,868

@21,864 (H)
As long as jobs are scarce due to labour and wage laws, that can't be helped.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 21 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,869

@21,865 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> The wealthy CEO and the ones on top have to oversee an entire corporation at the demands of the shareholders and the board of directors.

Yeah and they live in a country that allowed them to attain that position. The least they can do is contribute back to the country and government.

Anonymous H double-posted this 15 years ago, 48 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,870

@21,868 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> As long as jobs are scarce due to labour and wage laws, that can't be helped.

Sure it can, introduce legislation.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 34 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,871

@21,869 (H)
Which is why there is a tax system. The more they make, the more we get. Do not punish their success. Encourage them, as there will be our welfare safety net that is well-funded.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 9 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,872

@21,866 (H)
The poverty threshold in the US is $10,890.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 45 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,874

@21,867 (G)

> Explain why that affects the equation.

Walmart is a great example. I take 90 shares (a bunch of money) I pay my tiny tax and give the worker 1 share.

Anonymous H double-posted this 15 years ago, 31 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,876

@21,872 (A)

> The poverty threshold in the US is $10,890.

Holy shit

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 26 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,877

@21,874 (H)
This "tiny tax" is what all will have to pay. 15% is not so tiny when you calculate how much they make.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 6 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,878

@21,864 (H)
That doesn't explain why taxing rich people benefits the country

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,880

@previous (G)
Taxing the rich provide much revenue for the government to provide social services to the needy.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,881

@21,878 (G)

> That doesn't explain why taxing rich people benefits the country

Economics, how does it work?

1. Tax rich people
2. Build up infrastructure
3. ?????
4. Profit!

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,884

One in seven Americans lives in Poverty:

The ranks of the working-age poor climbed to the highest level since the 1960s as the recession threw millions of people out of work last year, leaving one in seven Americans in poverty.

The overall poverty rate climbed to 14.3 percent, or 43.6 million people, the Census Bureau said Thursday in its annual report on the economic well-being of U.S. households. The report covers 2009, President Obama's first year in office.

The poverty rate climbed from 13.2 percent, or 39.8 million people, in 2008.

The share of Americans without health coverage rose from 15.4 percent to 16.7 percent - or 50.7 million people - mostly because of the loss of employer-provided health insurance during the recession. Congress passed a health overhaul this year to address rising numbers of the uninsured, but the main provisions will not take effect until 2014.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/16/national/main6872133.shtml

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 21 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,886

@21,877 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> This "tiny tax" is what all will have to pay. 15% is not so tiny when you calculate how much they make.

Yeah I was just talking about how it is today. Still seems like the tax should be raised or lowered depending revenue because of the degree of wealth distribution in the country.

Anonymous H double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,887

It boggles the mind how America is still a superpower. We're like the 3rd world superpower.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 29 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,888

@21,884 (A)
African Americans make up 1/7 of the US population.
@21,886 (H)
Maybe it might work out, but I fear scaring away the corporations that provide much jobs.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 7 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,890

@21,874 (H)
So? I don't get your point.

Anonymous G double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,901

@21,880 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
Would this be necessary in the system you described?

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 33 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,903

@21,888 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> African Americans make up 1/7 of the US population.
>
> Maybe it might work out, but I fear scaring away the corporations that provide much jobs.

Lol where are the corporations going to go? China? No other country would let them get away with what they get away with here. Can you imagine the costs of moving your whole corporation to another country? Where is there money to be made? Are you going to try and start selling crappy chinese products to chinese people? Fact is Americans are the biggest consumers in the world, if the corporations left another one would pop right up to get in on it.

Corporations can enjoy a healthy profit margin while still giving money to the government.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 27 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,904

@21,881 (H)
Why not tax everybody fairly?

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,905

@21,901 (G)

> Would this be necessary in the system you described?

Man this guy is just proof of another problem in America, the education system.

Anonymous H double-posted this 15 years ago, 48 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,907

@21,904 (G)

> Why not tax everybody fairly?

That would be the idea. Rich people pay more because they make more. Currently the most money is coming from the people with the least money.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,909

@21,901 (G)
Yes, as it provides a much-needed failsafe.
@21,903 (H)
15% is a healthy margin. What is important is enforcing their tax-paying. Much of them is evasive in taxes.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 57 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,913

@21,887 (H)
The USA has only recently lost hyper power status

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,915

Which guy is more affected? A guy making $15,000 a year who has to pay $2,250 in taxes, leaving him with $12,750 or a guy who makes a million dollars and has to pay $150,000 in taxes, leaving him with $850,000?

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 21 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,917

@21,913 (G)

> The USA has only recently lost hyper power status

It's mostly been ongoing since the 80's we really haven't made any progress just downhill from there.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,924

@21,905 (H)
You still haven't explained your position.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 4 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,925

@21,915 (A)
The millionaire.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 5 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,927

What do you guys think about more tax exonerations for "going green"?

Anonymous H double-posted this 15 years ago, 28 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,928

@21,925 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)

> The millionaire.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 26 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,929

@21,925 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
So a guy who lives on $850,000 is worse off than the guy who has to live on $12,750 a year?

(Edited 17 seconds later.)

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 35 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,930

@21,927 (H)
Going green reduces ones tax rate from 15% to 12%.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 double-posted this 15 years ago, 57 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,932

@21,929 (A)
No, but the millionaire loses quite a bit of money and the state get more revenue from it.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 15 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,933

@21,907 (H)
Everybody receives the same amount from the government. Everybody should pay the same.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,939

@previous (G)

> Everybody receives the same amount from the government. Everybody should pay the same.

> Everybody receives the same amount from the government.

Lol no

The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+ replied with this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,941

I want no taxes except a sales tax on all citizens, except for groceries. That way, the more people spend, the more we all benefit. If you do not want to participate, then do not buy things.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,945

@previous (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)

> I want no taxes except a sales tax on all citizens, except for groceries. That way, the more people spend, the more we all benefit. If you do not want to participate, then do not buy things.

Yeah that's kind of the problem now. People aren't buying anything.

Anonymous H double-posted this 15 years ago, 49 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,949

Minichan - High School Economics Class

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #21,955

@21,941 (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)
Recession gonna fuck you over.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 16 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,008

@21,939 (H)
Compelling argument

Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,024

@21,945 (H)
That's not really the problem though. Sure, people aren't buying a lot because of the economy, but the economy isn't in the dumps because people aren't spending a lot. It's in the dumps because there is too much debt and not enough savings. There's just not enough liquidity in the economy. Trying to spurt the economy with massive spending would just make things worse as debt would pile up even further. That's why this is such a painful recovery. It can only be fixed through hard work and saving.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,052

@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Anon H: No, the government can just pass legislation!

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 19 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,055

@22,024 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
The root of the problem is that real wages for the bottom 80% have been falling since 1979, the top ten percent keep getting richer AND have been paying less in taxes.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 11 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,088

@previous (A)
Source? That's very interesting.

Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 8 hours later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,311

New York has higher "taxes" than Hong Kong, yet the average New Yorker contributes twice as much economic activity to the world than a Hong Konger.

If Hong Kong collected taxes through income tax instead of its land leases, the effective income tax rate would be 43%.

Ayn Rand collected nearly $25,000 more from Social Security -- and countless thousands from Medicare -- in the final years of her life.

AC !tyLmN8C16E joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,352

lol

advi !FurFagCd.2 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,359

I say we increase taxes for rich people, and only delegate their revenue to causes outside of blowing up opiate farmers in the middle east.

Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 39 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,372

America: land of the feeâ„¢

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,588

@22,311 (J)
Land leases are a good idea.

Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 22 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,607

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
They aren't if they result in a Hong Konger only being half as productive as a New Yorker.

It's like the zoning council from Hell.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 25 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,621

@previous (J)
It is a more efficient way of getting tax revenue without scaring away corporations.

Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,638

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
Yeah. It's a tax, and it's higher than what's paid in New York. Therefore, it doesn't work.

The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+ replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,643

@21,853 (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
You mean classic Communism?

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,774

@22,311 (J)
I thought her family collected it.

Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,776

@previous (G)
Medicare doesn't pay death benefits.

Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,779

@22,311 (J)
What does your second paragraphs even mean?

Anonymous G double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,781

@22,776 (J)
??? Also, please source your claims.

Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 34 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,877

@previous (G)

> Between December 1974 and her death in March 1982, Rand collected a total of $11,002 in monthly Social Security payments.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 13 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,924

@22,638 (J)
It gets more revenue for the state. How is this bad for a small nation, since it will give them much revenue? The government is not there to be a charity.
@22,643 (The Continental !!+bfOgzYS+)
No. This system allows for property.

Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,928

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
So higher taxes are a good thing?

It's not as if Hong Kong provides nearly as much to taxpayers as New York.

psychopath !PSYCHOhc32 replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #22,935

@previous (J)
But they still get the revenue at the end of the day.

Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #23,280

@previous (psychopath !PSYCHOhc32)
Collecting more taxes than NYC and providing fewer services seems to me like the work of a very inefficient government.