Topic: "A world without religion is a world without war."
morbid !!gKi9khatV started this discussion 15 years ago#11,233
Atheists/non-religious people often say that no religion = no war. This just simply isn't true. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge cynical asshole and get aggravated with religious people just as much as the next guy, but that is stupid. War is human nature. It doesn't matter if we have religion or not. Sure, most wars involve religion. But we would have just as many wars if religion was no more. Humans will always find something to argue/fight about. Haven't you seen the South Park episode?
!VoCaLoNunI joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later[^][v]#201,883
Upvote.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 minutes after the original post[^][v]#201,888
who says that
TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 12 seconds later, 4 minutes after the original post[^][v]#201,889
It's in our nature to destroy ourselves, kill each other... It's sad but yeah, religion has nothing to do with it.
morbid !!gKi9khatV (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 8 minutes after the original post[^][v]#201,897
@201,888 (C)
A lot of atheists in stupid atheist vs. theist arguments on the Internet. They often use it as a way to make religion seem like a world-wide problem that will lead to the downfall of all humankind. I wasn't quoting a specific person, though.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[^][v]#201,901
Sure religion has more than it's fair share of blood on its hands, but I agree that blaming it for all wars is just narrow-minded. Both World Wars had no real religious spark involved.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 15 minutes after the original post[^][v]#201,909
@201,897 (morbid !!gKi9khatV)
only stupid people say that
this thread is dumb
The Pony !.PonyTzEbE joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 21 minutes after the original post[^][v]#201,921
sluggy joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,409
Yea. No intelligent person would make that claim. Maybe no $$, resources, or pussy = no war.
Though, who has seen more war recently, China or the US? Maybe there is something there OP.
@202,174 (StatistSocialist3000)
Religion helps people overcome guilt (see George W Bush)
(Edited 29 seconds later.)
Freecode !!4IKKtS9GG joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,423
USSR, French Revolutionaries, North Korea, Chinese invasion of Tibet, etc.
sluggy replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,429
@previous (Freecode !!4IKKtS9GG)
China did not invade Tibet. You've been listening to too much propaganda from Robert Hamsterdam.
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,434
> Atheists/non-religious people often say that no religion = no war.
Who are these people who are saying this? I've heard a lot of people blame religion for a lot of violence in the world, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone seriously put forward the claim that putting an end to religion would end war forever.
Freecode !!4IKKtS9GG replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,435
sluggy replied with this 15 years ago, 14 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,437
@202,434 (M)
Theists (mostly Christians and Muslims, but not exclusively) often make up arguments they think they can win. Its why 99% of theist arguments are against strawmen.
Also, forget trolls and idiots. Not all atheists are intelligent. Sure, most idiots who aren't raised religious end up siding with religion because it provides easy answers they can understand, but some people leave religion for reasons that aren't completely rational.
I know people who stopped believing in God because of 9/11. It's ridiculous as terrible tragedies happen every day. Idiots are dumb though. It's possible an idiot atheist decided to debate a theist and the result was stupid on stupid.
Meowth !RKehomzmKo joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#202,502
No, because we've established that most religious are bigots who don't follow the spirit of their religion.
sluggy replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#205,003
@204,999 (StatistSocialist3000)
Christians in the US flock to the candidates who are least compassionate. People like rick perry and Michelle Bachmann have lots of support from the religious right.
Let's look at the most Christian candidates and their stances on migrant workers, gay rights, and women reproductive rights. Let's look at their stance on healthcare and aid for the poor. Let's look at their stance onfunding for planned parenthood (none of which goes to abortion). Let's look at their stance on fucking anything.
Many christians are hypocrites. You might not be, but in the US that's how it is. There are plenty of Christians who aren't hypocrite, but you will find they aren't the stronger believers. They are the cafeteria type.
Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#205,032
The only way to prevent war is, ironically, to do exactly as hitler wanted.
The Pony !.PonyTzEbE replied with this 15 years ago, 13 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#205,038
Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6 replied with this 15 years ago, 40 seconds later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#205,039
@previous (The Pony !.PonyTzEbE)
Remove difference.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#205,074
@204,701 (StatistSocialist3000)
Call me crazy, but I don't think that the problem with the IRA and the Taliban is that they were too secular. If two groups of people both are firmly of the belief that God supports them, then it is possible to justify any atrocity committed as simply doing what God wants. Does religion cause all wars? No, that's just stupid. However, saying that more religion = fewer wars is just as stupid.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#205,123
@204,999 (StatistSocialist3000)
Just because someone considers themselves to be Christian doesn't mean that they are empathetic. Look at the crusades for goodness sake.
StatistSocialist3000 replied with this 15 years ago, 5 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,404
@205,001 (The Pony !.PonyTzEbE)
How is,one religious if they are not. Folloeing their religion lol
StatistSocialist3000 double-posted this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,407
@205,074 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
The problem certainly isn't that they were too religious. Then they would be starting hospitals and feeding the poor.
Killing and violence is against Jesus message, not so explicitly against Mohammed
StatistSocialist3000 triple-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,408
@205,123 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
The crusades were an attempt to re conquer the lands of the former Roman empire. Statist, not religious.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 34 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,431
@previous (StatistSocialist3000)
Are you being serious? Do you really think that the Crusades had nothing to do with religion?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B double-posted this 15 years ago, 11 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,438
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 4 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,690
@205,404 (StatistSocialist3000)
You've never heard of that before?
Anonymous S joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,733
OP, you're forgetting that atheism is a belief system. Of course those who submit to it will make sweeping assumptions without proof or evidence. That is how belief systems work.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 15 years ago, 21 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#205,741
@205,407 (StatistSocialist3000)
Your whole definition of "religious" is a giant No True Scotsman fallacy. @previous (S)
Lol bud/10
StatistSocialist3000 replied with this 15 years ago, 13 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#206,122
> If people believed in God, they would live every minute of their lives in support of that belief. Rich people would give their wealth to the needy. Everyone would be frantic to determine which religion was the true one. No one could be comfortable in the thought that they might have picked the wrong religion and blundered into eternal damnation, or bad reincarnation, or some other unthinkable consequence. People would dedicate their lives to converting others to their religions.
> A belief in God would demand one hundred percent obsessive devotion, influencing every waking moment of this brief life on earth. But all those so-called believers do not live their lives in that fashion, except for a few. The majority believe in the usefulness of their beliefs — an earthly and practical utility — but they do not believe in the underlying reality.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,455
@previous (F)
A lot of Christians do not believe in following most rules of the Bible (such as the passages on money) they only believe in JESUS. I met one women who said that she thought the dinosaur fossils were created by God to test the faith of believers. Does she really believe in God?
Which book?
(Edited 13 seconds later.)
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 24 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,482
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,485
@previous (F)
Wow, this sounds like my girlfriends type of book. How was it? Scott Adams is a very strange and interesting man.
grey !C.MxxuCiTo joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 25 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,493
Nah, Our leaders would just fight about money, borders, and pissing contests like they do already.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 26 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,504
@206,445 (F)
That passage certainly brings up some interesting issues about how deeply people may have internalized the idea of an immortal afterlife, but, at the end of the day, don't we still have to take their word on what they believe and what they don't rather than making some judgment by ourselves? In other words, isn't a a little presumptuous to claim that someone doesn't really believe because they are not taking religion as seriously as we think they should or because they aren't following what we think should be the righteous path?
@206,455 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
There are many different interpretations of scripture. Would you really go so far as saying someone doesn't believe in God because they don't follow the interpretation you would like them to?
(Edited 28 seconds later.)
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,507
@previous (M)
I just said that some people really believe.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 37 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,516
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Oh, I see you were making much the same point I was. I thought you were seriously dismissing some people's beliefs because of what they thought about money or dinosaur bones. I was taking that post completely in the wrong manner.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 26 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#206,526
It was exceptionally interesting, although I think I would have enjoyed it more had I not been able to spot the "scientific-sounding gobbledegook" that he said we should try and look out for in the introduction.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#207,144
@previous (F)
What type of things made up the gobbledegook?
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#207,148