Topic: Official Horology Draad - Moderator Approved
Anonymous A started this discussion 2 years ago#111,033
Without Meta banning me for weeks. Fake Anon, could you please make this the official horology thread? I cannot even find the other one(s), and Meta deleted some. Come on, it is a valid topic and I should not be banned for weeks because I want to discuss clocks with a fucking clockmaker.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 2 years ago, 6 hours later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,243
You will either get bored or run this into the ground and straight through to the core of the earth, but this is now the OFFICIAL MOD-SANCTIONED horology draad.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 30 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,248
@1,234,221 (A)
arguably. it was designed to fix issues related to rather wonky concepts anyway and i've never actually seen a definitive proof that it functions to address the issue, provides for a robust corrective intervention or what that translates to in terms of improvements in accuracy.
it looks fucking cool, and that's neat.
but, i always feel like a particular point needs to be addressed in conversations involving complications. if you don't know the term for it's usage with watches specifically, clocks are generally spoken about to have parts that interact in ways that are known as functions. technically, adding a clutch to a cannon pinion post pivot at the union between the pivot arbor and the wheel allowing for slip to occur so the hands can be set independently from the function of the gear train to drive the escapement assembly is itself an additional "function", but most would call that a feature these days, but anything that adds additional complexity tend to be complex functions in clocks.
in watches, the term is traditionally and in modern parlance known as complications. an automatic winding mechanism with an asymmetrical rotating flywheel, that's a complication. a bezel dial that turns, that's a complication, buttons that trip timers, and set alarms, complications, twin balance escapements, extra complications. the term doesn't necessarily signify anything other than "features added beyond the primary functionality facilitated by additional complex mechanical (usually) gadgetry of undefined actual robust utility" or something like that. there are simple complications, and then there are very complicated complications complicating complications complex complications which, should obviously be obvious obviously, sometimes things are made to be complex just for the sake of the complexity itself, and that doesn't necessarily make it bad, but just because a super duper fancy and complicated system can be perfectly operational, that doesn't mean ALL equally fancy and complicated systems just like it perform with the same level of reliable precision - which brings me to my point.
the simpler a system is, generally, the more robust and repeatable the resulting performance tends to behave, and you can count on that performance in a wide variety of settings.
the more complications you introduce, the more variety you will get in terms of accuracy and you become limited by the precision of the instruments, as well as how precisely matched two systems are in terms of everything from elevation, to humidity. two things that much simpler designs very robustly ignore, and, yeah, they aren't fixing anything having to do with variations in spring tension as they run down, but, they run down and still synchronize reliably at the same rate.
what a tourbillon is doing, looks really fucking neat, yeah, is it fixing the watch in terms of correcting it's non-isochronic oscillator? not really. it's a cool idea, "what if wrist watches basically had gyroscopes, those resist changes in frequency due to variable amplitude" which would be great if it was true, tourbillion watches had gyroscopes rather than a revolving oscillator, and even gyroscopes are known to have a problem called gimbal lock, and i've seen double and triple tourbillion mechanisms and guess what, i've never seen one worn on a wrist and walking quickly through a crowd, jostling around, being bumped. i've seen a lot of tourbillons in little windows set on fluffy pillows in environmentally controlled show cases though. they are amazing looking, aren't they. little "art" pieces for your collection.
but you'll wear a real watch when you need to be on time somewhere. bet.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,313
@1,234,248 (spectacles)
Interesting. As I understand it, they were meant to offset the effect of gravity. They are ingenious for sure. I'd love to one day have a watch with one.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 57 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,324
@1,234,313 (A)
that's one of the issues around isochronism which is kind of an esoteric subject as applied in horology. tbh it gets a very brief mention in functional "'clock making" but aside from being a definition that comes up on maybe a test in formal classroom settings, or if you're studying the history of clock theory, like, it's just not going to be relevant to anything you're going to deal with realistically. early on it was thought that some kind of miraculously clever contraption was going to "fix" the problem and a perfect mechanical oscillator was going to be the ingenious mrk of the greatest master of the craft, but also they believed in the possibility of alchemy, didn't understand statistical thermodynamics until 2 or 3 hundred years later, worked on perpetual motion machines, and a perfectly isochronic oscillator with rate independent of amplitude and frequency under all possible frames of reference isn't even theoretically possible in terms of the true passage of time in the universe.
time invariance IS a mathematical fiction. and the concepts around this area are literally from a mode of scientific thinking that is obsolete, which is why they always say what the tourbillion was designed to solve, but you never see anyone say that tourbillions SOLVED the problem. it's perpetual motion, a fiction, and misleading and clever marketing gobbledygook. and lots of old clock makers tried to create a system that was isochronic, and they all failed at achieving perfection, because no system can be isolated from the universe or perturbed in such a way so as to offset disturbances to the system from being synchronous with external phenomenon.
these days intervals are made hyper accurate with the precision of atomic resonant frequencies of cesium nuclei, but even that has some probabilistic uncertainty, and there may be ways to achieve ever higher orders of synchronous beat regulation, but, frankly we're well beyond what any of the old master clock makers would have deemed isochronic perfection. they wouldn't have had the ability to measure the amplitude or resolve the frequencies of even a 3 dollar quartz mechanism and would be lucky measure the variability in the rate of a quartz clock given a year and all the modern knowledge in mechanical clockmaking.
the navy used to have what was i think called a quartz ingvar mechanical regulator that predated the use of quarts in terms of piezoelectric frequency generation, and it was a gimbal mounted classical pendulum regulator with a deadbeat and was sealed inside a vacuum chamber, for thermal and atmospheric isolation, but still had an environment with some gas injected, i want to say it was nitrogen, but it was rarefied, and the important distinction that made it the best mechanical regulator in the world was the pendulum which was made from a machined piece of ingvar quartz crystal free from occlusions which very strongly resists expansion and contraction of length, better than most any materials from what i remember. point it, it was a kind of system that was way over the top for its ability to nullify as many external factors that could disturb the rate at which the clock measured it's period in terms of seconds and was created to very highly accurate in terms of the precision in which that period was measured to be accurate. lol.
and it was cool, but as soon as digital quartz came along the entire us navy was switched over to digital timekeeping faster than fuckining anything, and companies like Hamilton who made the classical "ships chronometers" used throughout ww2 and up until like the early 70s in commercial fleets, i mean, they just don't exist anymore. you can find their chronometers sometimes, they're actually super rare. my dad has one up at the shop, it's neat, but, the cheapest junkiest little quartz battery job is orders of magnitude more accurate. same can be said of the world's most expensive, sophisticated, exotically designed mechanical wrist watches. they are garbage time keepers compared to the frequency at which quartz crystals oscillate and if you're looking for the most perfect time keeper to sport on your wrist, a swatch watch or a casio whatever little plastic 9 dollar thing you can find at the walmart beats anything a company like Patek, or rolex, or ANY mechanical watch maker will EVER sell for any number of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
but, they are beautiful for their aesthetic qualities, and intricate clockwork and are valuable for every other reason that literally their central function. none of them are considered accurate timekeepers outside the narrow range of other similarly functional mechanical timepieces. only within the domain in which they are precise are they regarded accurate.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 26 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,327
@1,234,313 (A)
and yes, i'd encourage you to get one if you'd like to have one, they are really fucking cool looking. but don't be fooled, you're investment in one is the same as buying into the aesthetic qualities or artwork. cost, and it's functionality purely from the standpoint of it being a timepiece are not mutually exclusive. there's a reason they are often elaborately adorned using jewels, and valuable materials. that's where most of the value comes from, and, yes, some from the meticulously constructed design. however, don't let that be a deciding factor, the difference between a 4500 dollar watch and a 45000 dollar watch is not measurable in terms of it's functionality as a timepiece. i can assure you of that. wear a 13 dollar casio digital watch when you go shoping for one and if the sales person even hints at one functionally being a "better" watch because it's more expensive, tap your casio and smile and that will shut them the fuck up really quickly. which, is ne reason i've mentioned the basel expo, which is an industry trade show, for like truly high end escapades into the world of wristwatches. they all know what they sell, it's complicated jewelry that's astonishingly expensive to repair if it breaks. and they won't fuck around too much playing at the bait and switch tactic of implying higher cost actually means anything in terms of functionality as a timepiece.
there is something to be said for quality of construction up to a point, precision cut parts and how highly refined they are is going to be the difference between, say, a Seagull made mechanical chronograph and a rolex Oyster type mechanical chronograph, so there's something to be said between the hundreds of dollars up to the few thousands of dollars - but, again, it's not MUCH in terms of literal performance, and even less if you consider performance in terms of cost of ownership and serviceability. the seagull made watch will win there every time. because the rolex can maybe, MAYBE be said to be a higher performer on the order of, say, a few minutes more accurate over the course of a full year of continuous use. lol. is that worth ten times the price?
fuck no, get the Seagull for 300 bucks and make a correction if you ever notice it's off by a small amount, like, chances are the thing will get taken off on run down and stop and need to be set again anyway. unless you take it off and keep it in a watch winding case, which works, sure, but, still.
get the thing that you like for the reason that you like it, and not for the bullshit sales pitch they try and goad you with when they upsell you. that's clock advice from a clock maker, but, that's also sound retail advice from a retailer and applies across the board. there's a reason why they say "you can't sell to a salesman," and it's true, you gotta see the sales pitch for the pitch, and then you'll get exactly what you want in terms of what YOU want, and not what they want you to think what you want.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 21 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,329
@1,234,325 (A)
i know, believe me, i totally get that. when images are working again i'll show you some really interesting clockwork.
and, for real, look up Erwin Sattler clocks, he's a clock maker out of munich. and his daughter is married to Richard... Eisler, i forgot his last name, but richard was a watchmaker and started doing engineering and design work for Sattler around like 2004 or so, and sattler clocks are truly remarkable and really quite innovative in the world of clock making. Sattler clocks will be a historically recognized name, like Huygens or Terry, where modern names like Kieninger or Hermle will be foot notes, like, idk, Sessions or Waterbury, not really important for being anything other than mass producers with successful market penetration, but, Sattler is making something of a unique contribution in terms of aesthetics and mechanically significant refinements.
there are a few companies with 40k dollar clocks, but sattler pretty much sets that as a low bar for entry. and guess what this bitch has :)
well, i don't personally own one. my family owns several, "technically" but, they can be purchased, and, also, we have some of their earlier work, and not off of their clocks were 40k. they've gotten really proud of their products in the last 10 years, i'll say that, but, god, one of the most beautiful delicate little wall clocks i've ever seen sold for i think 4,500 and was shaped like a tear drop and made from yew wood. i'm actually making a technical drawing of my own version of that design for fun, not in algodoo, but using illustrator. i'll post it later if anyone wants to see it i'll post it here.
spectacles double-posted this 2 years ago, 7 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,330
@1,234,328 (C)
shut the fuck up, don't try and diminish the part of expressing interest to generate comprehensive forms of conversation. not in a thread about making time for the sake of interest in horology. you do not get to spoil that for people
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 20 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,234,333
@1,234,331 (C)
i don't really care what motivates the question, that doesn't really have an impact on an answer to the question itself. unless questions are framed in a way that shows how i interact with the question is irrelevant to the forms of further questioning that follow from how i interact with them then i can give some fully engaging kinds of answers. i'm quite aware of the domains in which i can be interesting to the point of tediously indulgent. and not everyone gets that level of interest, some do, and i can generally tell when it's considered pointless or not beyond the point when it's obvious. i built a career off of this, and i'm sure everyone on this board understand the work they do quite well and can do the same but choose to think of it differently. but this stuff is genuinely fascinating to some people and i can oblige.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 13 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,354
oh yeah, the one way clutch doohickey. idk if seiko invented it, i'm pretty sure one way clutches existed before seiko added one to a watch winding mechanism. but, idk for sure, but it's a pretty nifty little bit of gadgetry. and fairly useful, in that it was possible and still is on some watches to snap the post by winding it improperly. one of the "overwinding" type issues that aren't really "overwinding," but more like over torquing them beyond the limit of the gear stop, which is pretty much what over winding is and also results in spring barrel damage and lots of damage. most of the time though people have other problems and everyone says they overwound their clock. "it's just overwound, can't you just unwind it some and fix it?" uh, no, actually, it's been in your uncles tool shed for 35 years and hasn't run and now there's corrosion damage and it needs a thousand dollars worth of work....
"can't you just WD-40 that though?"
yes, that certainly would work if it was also overhauled, had the wd-40 cleaned off in an ultrasonic bath, and rebuilt and lubricated with the correct lubricant.
"what's that cost?"
"a thousand dollars."
"well, uncle lou really loved that old clock, we'd better et it done then, ok, let's do it."
And that right there is 100% a legitimate scenario that happened all the time. nearly verbatim.
i know this is less about the magic lever than you would have liked, but, that's the way she goes.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,357
@1,234,354 (spectacles)
That is interesting. As I understand the magic lever, it ensures that the gear gets wound in one direction no matter the direction of the weight, right?
i do remember this now. this is a standard feature of automatics, seiko maybe did invent the specific mechanism, but previously variable input, one way output mechanisms did exist using things like dual ratchets and other kinds of articulated lever mechanisms. but the magic lever design is a much less complicated lever and rotor configuration. i could see this as being a novel thing when seiko introduced it, it's not a cast part, it's made from spring steel and machined, probably wasn't possible much earlier, just material fatigue would have precluded it. i could agree it was probably as you said, invented by and seiko and probably would have been influential in future designs by other makers.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 20 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,371
@previous (spectacles)
I was hoping you knew lol. All I know is the name spring drive. As for Grand Seiko, it is their highest model, many of them rivaling Rolex in price.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,380
@previous (A)
i'll tell you what, i have you at a disadvantage. but we've known each other for something like 13 years, now. i'm sure you remember charley sheen anon on LaGhouls, one of the first times i ever visited there, and you posted a reaction image to some reply i posted, and i responded back with charley sheen mirroring the reaction image almost identically. and you followed that up with another reaction image of someone else making a different face, and without much hesitation i fired back with charley sheen making that same face, almost identically. and you were right there waiting to see it, and already had the next face ready to go, with an even more unique face being made, and it started to get to be a bit of a challenge for you, you were going to win the face off, you were going to find a reaction that charley sheen anon did not have of charley sheen making that same face. but it wasn't until you got to a picture of Moe from the three stooges, everyone would know it, i bet you know exactly which one it was, and when i fired back with charlie sheen with the same haircut, the same look on his face, and every bit a dead ringer for Moe, that was when your mind was finally blown. and you responded back by saying, "holy shit." and i remember you said, "Who are you?"
You seem fine with this, so it's all good, but just in case you don't know, Matt couldn't give a single fuck about any of this. He's not even reading your replies. It's just his latest shtick to see how much he can make you write.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 44 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,388
@previous (I)
he's not making me write anything. but he will either get bored or run this into the ground and straight through to the core of the earth long before i run out of capacity to engage with another true clock/watch aficionado. i'm glad he's such a lover of timepieces. i can go on about this stuff endlessly. shtick or not, i'm sure he can hold his own interest.
this is his OFFICIAL MOD-SANCTIONED horology draad. not mine.
@1,234,371 (A)
what is there to like about it besides the price? spring drive is just like any watch, yours is a spring drive too, yours just has automatic winding, but it gets the power from a spring. wristwatches always do, unless they are battery powered.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 10 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,431
@1,234,383 (I)
You are 100% wrong, so fuck off and stop shitting up this thread with your obsession. I really am interested in watches, and I read each reply she makes.
@previous (spectacles)
I guess I like the looks of them. They look sophisticated.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,451
@1,234,431 (A)
the look is nice, now i'll tell you why it's worse than a casio. it tries too hard to appear to be something it's not, it's a liar, and it takes the best parts of two entirely different systems, throws them in the garbage, and the leftover bits are rigged together with a microcontroller forcing them to a state of malfunction, and does a worse job of timekeeping than the shittiest one, and a worse job of being fancier than the higher quality watch they could've made.
it's an electromechanical dinosaur from the 50s, redesigned from the failed concept they were then and made in such a way that no way approaches the durability of rolex, and to call it a spring drive misleading at best. no, i would suggest a casio over this thing, it does look nice, and i'm sure people get sold on one, maybe, MAybe if they didn't try so hard to make it appear NOT to be a terrible version of a quartz clock, maybe if they were proud of it. but no, this looks like the passion project of an executive that people can't say no to, because a PID controller in the middle came to them in a dream, bullshit, it's basically a cheat toy drone brain and the only thing it's doing it costing you a new battery every 3 months, fuck that thing. it's bad.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 43 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#1,234,454
@previous (A)
no, not alright, you need to know that think kind of thing is unacceptable. it's not just that it's a defunct concept that NO ONE is making in the clock/watch space in 70 years, but the way that it's branded and marketed is intentionally deceptive, and you can absolutely TELL from the very beginning when they applied a brake to the gear train, i thought, jesus suffering christ, what the fuck is this? and to then swap the concept of a brake with the concept of an escapement, and i immediately knew, no way in the fucking world is a brake and an escapement even remotely similar, not at all, and they then casually labeled the escapement "brake" like they weren't trying to make that forced analogy any easier to be understood. And no, that's.... not. what. an. escapement is doing. the escapement IS, the clock. brakes robbing a rotor of efficiency have more in common with a clutch, but even a clutch doesn't hinder functionality by loading the drivetrain with drag, clutches are actually fairly clever, but the escapement was invented by literal geniuses. who made high precision clock work by hand files and grinding wheels and made the tools, that made the tools that made the parts, that they made into clocks.
and you can tell they know how fucked the thing is when they toss out the fact that the spring is the only power source that drives the hands. i guess if you mean by malfunction, sure, what is the fucking point of synchronizing a rotor rotational period to a quartz frequency when the frequency alone doesn't NEED additional synchronization, you use a fucking magnetic escapement that is highly efficient and can run for years on virtually sips of millivolts, you don't fly an unregulated rotor through it, add a freaking pid controller to "match the wave forms," and then drain the battery - i bet the fucking battery gets hot too, i bet that thing is half heat sink people can wear the fucking thing - and drain it like struggling like you're trying hold a dumbell between your butcheecks, that's how hard that thing is magnetically braking against a -neodymium- magnet. this should not be hard. but 1 second a month accuracy isn't even close to quartz accuracy, is the rotor actually revolving at 14thousands revs per second? god no, it's at best revolving at some fraction of that, and there's no way that thing had any kind of stable accuracy -theoretically stable accuracy at 1 second, maybe, measurable, no, fucking, way. i don't buy it it. quit animating the fucker and clip a milisecond timer and show me the rate, it bounces around like a ball, for sure. it averages out to shittier timekeeping that a quartz, costs more than a rolex when the batteries are 12 bucks 3 or 4 times a year, plus the repairs to the the seized rotor pivots.
i literally hate that watch. if it was a clock, i wouldn't even sell it, i'd throw it away and save someone the trouble. it's like a half bicycle half motorcycle but they threw out the bike frame and the motorcycle engine and you supposed to be pedaling around on a harley and you only have high gear and a perpetually applied brake. it's just like that, but worse, because it's real, and people can buy it. fuck that, its bad, it's the hitler of watches. it's probably revenge for nuking hiroshima.
spectacles replied with this 2 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,503
@previous (A)
because the purpose of the shape of the teeth and pallets is to provide an impulse, the point is to draw power from, and we talk about efficient transfer of momentum with very low losses. a brake is an impediment impulse, it's a power sink, tends to very very lossy, inefficiency expressed as conversion of momentum into heat, vibrational stuttering, noise. brakes don't care about anything but thermal equilibrium inhibiting inertia. an escapement facilitates oscillation this is the exact opposite of what brakes are best at. brakes are just such terrible regulators of periodic motion that they aren't considered to be even a bad kind, they're just a brake.
like, levers make terrible ramps. arguably they both give you leverage to perform work, like lifting, but you can't call them interchangeable.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 2 years ago, 6 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,896
@previous (A)
If you mean spectacles I think she suicided her id, and is no longer with us. May she rest in hell. But, I'm taking over as the new squeegee. Kind of a dr.who like phenomenon. I am technically the 3rd squeegee. I can try and answer this question, but you'll have to tell me about the thing, I don't know what it is. I've heard the name before maybe, but nothing comes to mind specifically. But fill the details and I'll say what I can about it. I don't have as much experience with watches as the last squeegee. I have familiarity with clocks that's been passed on to me. But I don't have anything focused on watches.
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 2 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,899
What's happening? I can't tell what's shtick with squeegee. A mental patient, a bunch of kids in a trench coat, a Dr.who type alien. Damn it, a timelord? squeegee is a timelord? I didn't know squeegee was the Charlie Sheen anon I vaguely remember talking about smoking crack and hooker parties.
Specious Niggling Effulgence joined in and replied with this 2 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,903
@previous (K)
i said phenomenon, not alien. Timelords aren't real, no one is saying that. but, yes, everything you're suggesting is more or less correct. and on the subject of watches, the only watches i remember anything about are watches made by Erwin Sattler. a lot of watches are really lovely, and i'd say anything made by Seiko should be a nice watch and they are a very reputable company, if you like it, go for it, they have an excellent price point for any collector who would like to have a nice collection of watches and enjoys a variety of mechanically distinct designs with different complications they can speak to when showing them to anyone interested.
i think a kinetic movement would be a great conversation piece from hearing the name, but you'll be educating me on specifics, of course i'm interested to know more so i look forward to hearing about it.
i see there have been questions related to some very high end watches i can speak to where the second squeegee kind of trailed off. the "first" squeegee, if you remember that squeegee, wanted to one day own an Erwin Sattler Regulateur (German spelling i think, but correct) 1920 wrist watch: https://shopping.google.com/u/0/lists?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix3YjKjJj_AhXLkmoFHUiHD2kQ56cHCBM
at $53,000 it's modestly priced compared to Sattler's precision regulator clocks with temperature compensating pendulums, jeweled pivots and arbor bearings, the most expensive of which are well over twice the price of the 1920 wrist watch, which has 60 jeweled gear pivots, an automatic winding mechanism that as you can see from the pictures isn't visibly obscuring the view of the GLORIOUSLY sexy movement at all, just look at it, it's possibly the most beautiful watch mechanism ever made and it was designed by Richard Mueller, who designed for Patek Phillipe and had a hand in creating the Grandmaster Chime, which was made with the input of several watchmakers, but the Regulateur 1920 was Richard's personal opus. and just look at the dial, that it how understated a sophisticated gentleman's watch should stand out. reserved, but utterly refined beyond any measure and only apparent upon close examination. the closer you look, the more details speak to you, but never overpowering, and with a clear separation between hands, this is how one should see time, as a measure of it's quick passage, and of the long duration, most prominently, the moments you live within -the minutes are made to be mindful of. that's a statement of sentimentality from a genius craftsman and brilliant engineer. the first squeegee spent time in Munich in 2002, learned under their guidance how to service precision mechanisms, and was the only certified tech in America authorized to service on Sattler's behalf for a number of years, and was invited to his daughter's wedding that summer to Richard but unfortunately was 3 months out and despite trying, wasn't able to extend the trip. if i had, i'm not sure i would have returned, i might've stayed and apprenticed, and just look at that mechanism. that's the watch Richard had in mind to make, a love letter to his beautiful wife, inspired by his love for her movement, and grace. and a feature of note is the placement of the setting post, inline with the band rather than the side. unusual, and gives the watch a distinctive clean silhouette, and is ingeniously practical, nothing to catch on loose clothing, and makes it ideal for left handed owners, and remains perfectly functional for right handed people as well. some people are geniuses, the most brilliant aren't even trying. they're inspiring. You want a Sattler, clock or watch. most brands are names and in the future they're fall out of trendy fashion and no one will care about a Grandmaster Chime with it's 20 stupid complications that mean anything but for the sake of being an everything bagel of watches and appeal to Kanye West for the price he can bling. But a Sattler isn't a brand, it's man, and protegee, and will be remembered for hundreds of years like other Master Clockmakers, like Christian Huygens, Eli Terry, or Seth Thomas, the modern age of Master in this craft has one name, and it's Sattler. and i don't care what you hear from someone trying to sell you something expensive, they can't sell you a Sattler, bet, but they can sell you some production piece patek with parts coming from asia -bet, and bet they'll deny it, but, b e t. they don't know the difference between "assembed in Switzerland," vs all in house, on site, handcrafted, every. part. that makes Sattler products a truly limited and hard to find, very rare kind of investment piece. Patek, rolex, -most names that are trendy as being "the best" watches are anything but limited and can be found at almost EVERY jeweler. they are sweatshop watches, basically. but very high dollar brand name "lux" things. what you want is a sattler. what you want is to visit their location in Germany, in person, you can meet the people who made you one of the finest things anyone could ever own. That's what squeegee would do. First, second, third, or after. idk why squeegee 2 didn't talk about this. but i just got here, it'll be a bit before i'm up to speed.
and this name is kinda not my style, i'm not sure why it was given to me, i'll probably just probably change that at some point...
Matt's new shtick is seeing how much he can make a compulsive autist write. He'll ask him a vague question like "What do you think about Rolex?", Squeegee will write an enormous wall of text, Matt won't read any of it and will follow up with "I see. And what about Casio?" And if Squeegee doesn't respond with another wall of text about Casio within a few hours, Matt will prod him him with "Squeegee? And what about Casio?"
Anonymous K replied with this 2 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,955
@1,234,927 (M)
Oh, you could have just said it's Sunday and I wouldn't have had to read your opinion about Matt for the 100 thousandth time. It's not like anyone is going to miss it being said the other ten times a day you remind us, Rainman.
Anonymous K replied with this 2 years ago, 7 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,958
I don't like Matt. Matt's dumb. Very, very dumb. Wapner. Judge Wapner. Yeah. Matt's a shtick is dumb. Matt's dumb. Yeah. Gonna miss wapner. Cause squeegee walls of text. Yeah.
Anonymous K replied with this 2 years ago, 55 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,965
@1,234,961 (I)
what are yours? you could contribute to the conversation instead of just shitting on the contributions being made, however long they may be. you contribute nothing. Squeegee contributes too much, matt contributes not enough. SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR A THREAD, christ sakes. just shut the fuck up you antagonistic piece of SHIT.
Anonymous K replied with this 2 years ago, 46 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,968
you don't like the thread, SHUT THE FUCK UP and dont god damn bother reading it. Just go away. and go TOUCH GRASS. or something. anything. except REPEAT the same tired ass FAGGOTRY you bring to every thread, ever fucking day. SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Anonymous K replied with this 2 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,974
@previous (Steven J. Quest)
I'm giving you what you want so you can masturbate and go watch tv with a bag of cheetos or whatever you do in the after glow. lol. You think i was serious, but, no, this post was the serious post.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 5 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,234,978
@previous (I)
I like their philosophy of vertical integration. They make very single part of their watches in-house. They also invented the magic lever, and I find their dials to be very attractive. You?
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 9 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,020
@previous (I)
what are you interested for, in what context does it matter to you? metal, leather, canvas, these are all personal preferences. perhaps it feels nice on his wrist and doesn't catch the hair on his arms like a metal band.
What is you interest in horology? please answer my question with as much specificity as you're able, since you have great interest in answers, i'm sure you can speak at length about watch bands, spring bars, clasps, or even the tools and methods of finding new replacements to accessorize with. Would you like to tell me which brand of aftermarket replacement band you're most fond of? i can break it down by country of origin, indonesia, germany, italy, mexico, and even us makers, suck as burly strap, duraband, or products by companies like rubbermaid, just to name a small list of examples.
Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,024
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
Why do you care? You don't know shit about watches and are just copy pasting walls of text from ChatGPT. I wouldn't trust you to repair a sun dial.
Anonymous I replied with this 2 years ago, 50 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,025
@1,235,020 (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
I am starting to become interested in horology but am alas still an amateur. I need a teacher. Since OP said it is his hobby and he loves to talk about it, I am hoping he will guide me through the subject.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 50 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,026
In fact, lets make a subject of the day. What kind of CLASP do you prefer on your watch band? Clamshell? tension clasps, traditional buckle? or are you a fan of the newer styles of closures that are popular with the paracord mod watch band community? YES, there is a paracord guild of weaver enthusiasts who have a dedicated group of watch band makers, have you seen them? What's your favorite pattern of hand crafted paracord DIY watch band patterns? open question for ALL of my watch and clock enthusiast obsessed die hard afficionados.
Specious Niggling Effulgence triple-posted this 2 years ago, 7 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,031
if you're really interested, well, i can provide you with the NAtional Clock and Watch association guide on practical bench craft, which is day one training material for all industry entry level counter workers, there is NOT a better, more thorough and comprehensive guide in the country. I was a contributing author on the project in 2008! it even comes with a certificate that i can award to anyone who passes a practical knowledge based test. Which would be easy to do here, since it's something i can post, you can take at your leisure, and post the answers to when you're done. it's perfect for anyone at your level, because it's perfect for anyone preparing to do sales at the very basic level of simple definitions and understanding at an amateur level, who would be he customers they would deal with, perfect, because it was created by industry business insiders like me who designed the program to do exactly what you're asking for, a teacher. literally.
you'll love it. should i get you a copy? i have a pdf of it, i'll have to have it emailed to me, but, heck yeah! you're going to be thrilled you asked!
Specious Niggling Effulgence quadruple-posted this 2 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,032
and NO, i'm not even trolling, lol, i am for serious, it's 65 pages of content i can test you on. lots of pictures though, so, don't think it's too much to handle. we gave it to teenagers who had seasonal work selling watches over christmas holidays and they LOVED learning so much about watches.
Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 27 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,036
@1,235,032 (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
You're in no position to teach anyone. I was going to use your shop but you've revealed you don't know the first thing about clocks so I will be taking my business elsewhere. And so will all my friends who live in the area and abroad.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 23 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,048
@1,235,035 (I)
If he can pass the written test, sure. i'd so go for it. but this isn't a teaching thread perse, so it's about horology, not a tutoring course about horology, so you'll have to take it elsewhere, i was just going to post the pdf and the test links. but, ask him i guess, but i think you're weird for asking me and saying please? i don't work here. lol
@1,235,036 (Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence)
actually, i literally could school your ass on this, and several subjects related to you not having any friends, lol. i'm sorry, that was off topic and rude. mods may delete this reply for that. and yours too since you're lying. i think everyone can plainly see that when it comes to this topic, squeegee puts the ho in horology, friend.
@previous (Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence)
mods, moderate this reply for being off-topic, and demonstrably false. thanks.
Specious Niggling Effulgence double-posted this 2 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,049
i'd report with the report feature, but, of course it's another captcha blocked and off limits thing i can't do for some reason? it's like this board is MADE to be abusive towards users, especially and specifically new users. wow, something KIMMO must have coded in. but thats why i can't report these and have to ask like this -even though the rules say dont, right? Huh, how specifically kimmoesque. yall just loved what he weaponized anon talk to do to y'all, huh?
Specious Niggling Effulgence triple-posted this 2 years ago, 38 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,067
@1,235,037 (Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence)
i did check before saying this, but if you know my old shop, then obviously you've got the ability to prove this yourself easily with nothing more than a simple search: the Dallas Morning News did a story on my expertise in German clock repair, so much so that she even became one of my long time customers. and the article and her professional journalistic opinion essentially call you a deceptive, uninformed off-topic butthurt tryhard. lol.
i'd link the article that literally proves you to be nothing but empty accusations that are demonstrably false, but something tells me i dont have to, y'all have probably read about me in the newspaper and maybe even seen my appearances on TV. funny how that works, huh? the truth i mean? it's a bigger dildo than lies and i don't even have to try and fuck anyone, you just grab a hold and insert it up your own ass. i'm doing fucking nothing, lol.
and you couldn't be more mad about the nothing i'm even doing at all. that's some misplaced anger, mad because you can't lie about me hard enough for the dildo of truth to fall out of the impacted corner of your gut you've got it wedged into.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 10 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,069
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
Let’s just ignore the angry stalkers. They are truly pitiful people. Imagine how miserable they must be in real life.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 7 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,072
@previous (A)
you know what, dude, for real, cheers. you still drink? if so, i'm going to have a mikes strawberry lemonade, and i can't call that a toast. we may not agree on everything, but on that, we are in absolute agreement.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,095
@1,235,080 (A)
i toast you too, i don't see how some people can't manage to get along with others, at least some of the time, regardless of anything. sometimes you just gotta put differences aside and what was any of that for anyway. and that why i don't think we've ever had much major conflict. little periodic trolling back and forth, every so often, but honestly nothing hold a grudge over or anything. id rather remember you as the troll who got his oil changes too frequently and almost destroyed the forum at priousowners.com or whatever. caveatipise, and this moment in a thread about time and junk and stuff. whoever you are, actually idk. "watch bro."
Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 7 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,099
@1,235,067 (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
You've inspired me to use my inheritance to start a clock shop of my own. Dallas deserves a shop that knows clocks, not a shop whose employees try to steer customers to inferior products like mechanical clocks and watches which need to be repaired by the very same people. We call that a conflict of interest. No, I will not just start a clock shop in Dallas. I will start a clock shop right across the street from this imposters unserious fraud/scam shop.
Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence triple-posted this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,101
@1,235,095 (Specious Niggling Effulgence) > id rather remember you as the troll who got his oil changes too frequently and almost destroyed the forum at priousowners.com or whatever. caveatipise, and this moment in a thread about time and junk and stuff. whoever you are, actually idk. "watch bro."
That was over 25 years ago. You sound like OP's stalker.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 5 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,105
@1,235,099 (Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence)
lol, do it. i'd compete against that in a heartbeat. for real, you go right ahead and give it your very best effort. i would be happy to even be among one of your first customers. to help get you going and all. just as a gesture of good will in the spirit of friendly competitive business ventures. tic toc, promenade, king arthur, the clockery, McArthurs, Chapel Jordan, Time after Time, the Clock Face, Time Square, the list goes on and on, we were always friendly competitors and good friends with all of shops and the folks that ran them, as long as they were around, we were there and always had a great relationship with our competitors. call any of them and ask about our shop, and they'll tell you. well, you can call tic toc, they're still doing business. that's old Ed bynums shop, but he's been gone for years. kids took over, they're good people. if they needed a clock for a sale and didn't have it, we'd run one over to them at cost so they wouldn't lose the sale to us, actually. and they would have done that for us too. we did that for the Clockery especially when they were going out in 2015 i think it was. Bill Gallagher got into a pretty bad motorcycle accident and he and barbara retired early. i actually handled a bunch of deliveries for them in my off hours, i'd known bill since i was a little kid. they'd been in business nearly as long as my pops.
yeah, totally, id encourage you to do it. it's a small community of very dedicated, loyal, and honorable people. it's a tough market these days, but it's there. pop by and introduce yourself, i'm sure my folks would be happy to talk shop and you'd probably pick up a thing or two. since you're new. that's a genuine statement of fact i've made here. every bit. that's all, nothing sarcastic or anything.
Specious Niggling Effulgence double-posted this 2 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,106
@1,235,104 (A)
that's more than i would have guessed. that's a lot of pivots. do you know why they put jewels in clockworks? its pretty neat i you don't know
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 6 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,109
@1,235,102 (A)
back at you. i'd love the stalker too if they'd hum when they got my nuts in their mouth, but they never hum. i'm sure the don't hum on your nuts either, but they all the heck over them like dwarves going to work. but i guess they whistled. dwarves whistle, trolls do what? just live under bridged and everyone on a while you find one one throat deep with your nuts in their mouth? that's fucking weird, you know?
Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 9 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,112
@1,235,105 (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
You know what, I will pop on by. But I think it's you who would learn a thing or two from me. I'll do you a favor and won't send you a bill for my time when I do. Consider that my gesture of good will.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 14 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,115
@1,235,108 (A)
yes, exactly, and actually lets you get away with out lubricant in some pivots. which is my jeweled watches are practically unlubricated. the specific materials chosen are picked for the property the materials share that make for nearly a solid state of reduced surface tension. Steel on Steel, you can think of the atomic structure as being like your knuckles, when you rub your knuckles together the shared crystalline structure are very closely mirrored, and your knuckles mirror each others, groves hit peaks, and you get a lot of drag and what you feel and see, and even hear and the raking of knuckles is the coefficient of friction and the energy it takes to do the raking, and the sound, and heat and everything - that's losses of efficiency, and eventually just leads to wear, or in this case, a pain in your knuckles. but now open up one hand and your palm represents a material that's not steel, and is more finely arranged at the surface. less bumps and groves, this would be analogous to the harder material, a much more densely packed material. like diamond, rubies or sapphires. all much harder than steel. now when you rake your knuckles across your palm, feel that? just glides, doesn't have a similar atomic structure to bind up in. you see this a lot just in terms of general mechanics. self similar materials tend to sieze, but materials of different nature tend to not. even metal on metal, youll bet a lot of rotors made of aluminum with a zinc housing, or various different materials being used in, like door knobs, the spindle, chassis and cylinder are all part of the mechanism that articulates to throw the bolt, or latch, and they're all different materials for seemingly no good reason. why not make them all just steel? because, they have no glide. you'd get lots of binding. dissimilar materials acts as a solid state lubricant between materials. that's why you don't typically have to worry about lubricating most metal on metal mechanical friction points. the materials do that job naturally. that's just physics. lubricants still come into play, but do so under either super high loads, torque, or friction, and a lot of the times what they are mostly providing for is to sink heat away from the friction point. it does add slip, but keeping materials from over heating to the point the surfaces basically melt and suddenly bond into one chunk of material, that's when parts have seized. anything high rpm, and the heavier it is, the more likely oil is part of the issue they have in place to prevent damage. and that's why most watches and clocks get the smallest amounts of oil added directy to the pivots, never to the gear teeth. and why some high end watches are mostly unoiled. it's just not necessary when there is nearly zero drag, an no heat being generated.
so, yes, you are correct, but it's to reduce friction low enough to eliminate most wear, and lubricant requirements. pretty cool, huh
Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,119
@previous (A)
You're absolutely correct. This guy is full of shit and anyone who knows the first thing about these pieces knows you ALWAYS put lubrication on the jewels.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,120
@1,235,112 (Epecious Siggling Nfflulgence)
also, don't send bills for your time. that's not how you should handle payments under any circumstances. if you need to do delayed payment, you still provide for the billing at the time the services are rendered and you get a signature, provide them with a copy of the invoice, and it should have printed instructions with the invoice they signed on the same page. never get an agreement, and then leave and "send them a bill." no one does that. that's not reality. that's tv show stuff at best, tbh. usually you'll just want to be able to transact the sale at that time, provided for by check, credit, cash, whatever, you do a job, you get paid for that work and provide a receipt. that's the business/customer payment process and is provided for by laws and statues to be protected under the law and they can't legally breach, say, a credit card transaction by reversing the charges on you because you never got their signature and they never got a receipt or invoice - you'll want to look into the payment protections in texas and make sure you follow up appropriately or you're liable to run into trouble at some point. you want to make sure you're protected in any kind of situation in reality. cause even in your imagination there, i just gave you some real world, legitimate, experience based, knowledgeable advice on business 101 stuff. so, you may think you know better than me about what it is i am an expert in, and that's fine. i have no idea who you are or what you do or what you know so i can't say what i could learn from you. maybe something, but but not when you're playing games. and what you're doing is playing pretend time. i don't mean that disrespectfully. but it's a god damned fact. and that's not my fault, that's your fault. i'm not playing. this is real fucking life, anon. youre talking to a real person. who am i talking to? i don't even know. you won't quit playing at your games. not my fault. ok?
Specious Niggling Effulgence double-posted this 2 years ago, 12 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,121
@1,235,117 (A)
it depends, if they are the pivots where the gears rotate, vs oscillate, and also what kind of jewels. agate is also used for some pallets. and yo never oil the pallets, usually he oscillator doesn't get oiled, and the gear train gets usually some, but sapphire, diamond and ruby all have different properties, and it also depends on the level of finish they take the parts to. ultra, ultra high precision, like perfect within hundredths vs thousandths is a huge difference and one will wear way more than the finer polish, and machining parts to the higher levels of precision gets to be crazy expensive, so you can take parts to a certain level and achieve the same standard of service with oil as a much higher and expensive level of finish may achieve with nearly zero oil. it just depends on the variables manufacturing. thats one reason my like role and Patek Phillipe watches of fairly similar design and quality may have really very different kinds of requirements from the service provided, sometimes different oils are uses, and usually quantities of oil added are measured out. the tool can look like a pin with a round head, the round shape carries a pretty specific shape and that lets surface tension of the oil self meter out the correct amount of oil that then flows into the pivot. so, usually not even a "drop" of oil, but, like the oil a drop of oil would leave on a stylus tip. and that's all you do is touch the pivot and it flows in and it's a touch of oil. very little.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,122
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
This fascinates me. Truly. I think the idea of jewels is ingenious. My Seiko has 24, I guess because of the day/date complication.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 5 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,133
@previous (A)
yes, exactly, but it's to reduce friction low enough to eliminate most wear, and lubricant requirements. pretty cool, huh.
because, they have no glide. you'd get lots of binding. dissimilar materials acts as a solid state lubricant between materials. that's why you don't typically have to worry about lubricating most metal on metal mechanical friction points. the materials do that job naturally. that's just physics. just glides, doesn't have a similar atomic structure to bind up in. you see this a lot just in terms of general mechanics. self similar materials tend to sieze, but materials of different nature tend to not. like diamond, rubies or sapphires. all much harder than steel. now when you rake your knuckles across your palm, feel that? why not make them all just steel? even metal on metal, youll bet a lot of rotors made of aluminum with a zinc housing, or various different materials being used in, like door knobs, the spindle, chassis and cylinder are all part of the mechanism that articulates to throw the bolt, or latch, and they're all different materials for seemingly no good reason. Steel on Steel, you can think of the atomic structure as being like your knuckles, when you rub your knuckles together the shared crystalline structure are very closely mirrored, and your knuckles mirror each others, groves hit peaks, and you get a lot of drag and what you feel and see, and even hear and the raking of knuckles is the coefficient of friction and the energy it takes to do the raking, and the sound, and heat and everything - that's losses of efficiency, and eventually just leads to wear, or in this case, a pain in your knuckles.
and that's why most watches and clocks get the smallest amounts of oil added directy to the pivots, never to the gear teeth. and why some high end watches are mostly unoiled. lubricants still come into play, but do so under either super high loads, torque, or friction, and a lot of the times what they are mostly providing for is to sink heat away from the friction point. which is my jeweled watches are practically unlubricated. it does add slip, but keeping materials from over heating to the point the surfaces basically melt and suddenly bond into one chunk of material, that's when parts have seized. anything high rpm, and the heavier it is, the more likely oil is part of the issue they have in place to prevent damage. it's just not necessary when there is nearly zero drag, an no heat being generated. lets you get away with out lubricant in some pivots. the specific materials chosen are picked for the property the materials share that make for nearly a solid state of reduced surface tension. but now open up one hand and your palm represents a material that's not steel, and is more finely arranged at the surface. less bumps and groves, this would be analogous to the harder material, a much more densely packed material.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 8 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,141
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
That is the opposite of what I would have expected, but makes sense. How do watchmakers choose which sort of jewel goes where?
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 11 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,142
@previous (A)
if you're really interested, well, i can provide you with the NAtional Clock and Watch association guide on practical bench craft, which is day one training material for all industry entry level counter workers, there is NOT a better, more thorough and comprehensive guide in the country. you'll love it. should i get you a copy? Timelords aren't real, no one is saying that. i think a kinetic movement would be a great conversation piece from hearing the name, but you'll be educating me on specifics, of course i'm interested to know more so i look forward to hearing about it. and you can tell they know how fucked the thing is when they toss out the fact that the spring is the only power source that drives the hands. it averages out to shittier timekeeping that a quartz, costs more than a rolex when the batteries are 12 bucks 3 or 4 times a year, plus the repairs to the the seized rotor pivots. i see there have been questions related to some very high end watches i can speak to where the second squeegee kind of trailed off. the "first" squeegee, if you remember that squeegee, wanted to one day own an Erwin Sattler Regulateur (German spelling i think, but correct)
but, yes, everything you're suggesting is more or less correct. I was a contributing author on the project in 2008! i guess if you mean by malfunction, sure, what is the fucking point of synchronizing a rotor rotational period to a quartz frequency when the frequency alone doesn't NEED additional synchronization, you use a fucking magnetic escapement that is highly efficient and can run for years on virtually sips of millivolts, you don't fly an unregulated rotor through it, add a freaking pid controller to "match the wave forms," and then drain the battery - i bet the fucking battery gets hot too, i bet that thing is half heat sink people can wear the fucking thing - and drain it like struggling like you're trying hold a dumbell between your butcheecks, that's how hard that thing is magnetically braking against a -neodymium- magnet. it even comes with a certificate that i can award to anyone who passes a practical knowledge based test. Which would be easy to do here, since it's something i can post, you can take at your leisure, and post the answers to when you're done. i have a pdf of it, i'll have to have it emailed to me, but, heck yeah! you're going to be thrilled you asked! it's perfect for anyone at your level, because it's perfect for anyone preparing to do sales at the very basic level of simple definitions and understanding at an amateur level, who would be he customers they would deal with, perfect, because it was created by industry business insiders like me who designed the program to do exactly what you're asking for, a teacher. and on the subject of watches, the only watches i remember anything about are watches made by Erwin Sattler. a lot of watches are really lovely, and i'd say anything made by Seiko should be a nice watch and they are a very reputable company, if you like it, go for it, they have an excellent price point for any collector who would like to have a nice collection of watches and enjoys a variety of mechanically distinct designs with different complications they can speak to when showing them to anyone interested. literally. but 1 second a month accuracy isn't even close to quartz accuracy, is the rotor actually revolving at 14thousands revs per second? god no, it's at best revolving at some fraction of that, and there's no way that thing had any kind of stable accuracy -theoretically stable accuracy at 1 second, maybe, measurable, no, fucking, way. i don't buy it it. quit animating the fucker and clip a milisecond timer and show me the rate, it bounces around like a ball, for sure. this should not be hard.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 10 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,148
@1,235,122 (A)
nice, yes, exactly. that's a nice watch, and when you say stuff like that when you go to look at watches next time, you'll feel how differently the sales experience will be. it's subtle, but yea, just hearing you say day date complication in passing, tells me a fuckload more than you might think. i would serious up that interaction immediately, i'd assume a whole set of things about you based on that. i'd assume you're a serious buyer, i'd assume you could probably afford a category of watch that it well above the one yo may be looking at, i'd assume all kinds of things that i wouldn't have assumed without hearing you speak with the terminology that says, "this customer right here has a lot of experience in this interaction space." i might assume you could know more than me, i might assume you've bought so many watches you've learned to talk like that from just doing that buying a watch interaction untold numbers of times. cause in sales like that you have to be super receptive to the space of possibility that comes from the tiny things in an interaction that others overlook because they don't know that ive done exactly what you and i are doing right here and talking about, tens of thousands of times. 5 to 10 customers a day, easy, about 310 days a year, because we were open 6 days a week and only closed holidays. pluss all the service calls, and conversations with our vendors, and internal discussions just shooting the shit, because we loved it. 3000 conversations like this a year, easy, for ten years. 30,000 conversations like this and i'd just joined minichan. ten years later and i'm easily at having conversations like this, that they call long winded or walls of text, and i'm like, son, i have conversations like this for breakfast. i not even thinking, i'm just talking. i've had conversations EXACTLY explaining all of these kinds of things we've talked about today by LUNCH when i was doing this professionally. i've said all this stuff, easily, nearly 100,000 times in my life, I lived this stuff as a kid i was listening to these things a decade before i was ever working. i've said before, i've got y'all at an EXTREME disadvantage in this space, but i'm not sure why someone thinks this is a competition, it's not a competition. my friends, this is a slaughter house. i tried explaining that early on. but just because you don't like me or whatever, that doesn't mean anything when you're livestock, and the butcher girl has a sledge hammer and you don't know what you've led yourself into the middle of. look around. and right here, matt just said something that in my professional life would have made me change my opinion and straighten up my presentation. he's the only one that so far has said anything that's sounded serious. ive heard matt say serious things in this space of watch topics that you don't even have the faintest notion of why i know he's serious, you have no concept of why what i hear from y'all is utter mooing. y'all are laying, this is obvious. don't be mad because you play games and get told. you wanna go cry about it? there's something wrong with you. i can't be any clearer. you're doing this to yourself. sorry, not sorry. and matts not faking. i just heard it in his response. genuine sincerity. that's all i'm basing any of this on. who sounds sincere, and who sounds insincere. nothing more. its just blatantly obvious to be based on the hundred thousand times i've done this and been in this exact position, having these exact conversations. i hope you understand, nothing personal. but with y'all, this shit is personal, get over yourselves.
Specious Niggling Effulgence double-posted this 2 years ago, 19 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,149
are you just repeating everything i'm saying like you're 8? wow. MAtt, let's let this thread cool off, and let this cat think about what it is their doing and how their behaving, we can pick this up when the temper tantrum is over.
@ whoever you are
sorry dude, i didn't think you were going to react like this. if you want to talk some other time and see if we can squash this, then i'm open to that, ive got nothing against you, but you've got some really difficult for me to understand animosity towards me, so i'll bounce and let you chill out. you won't stop so i'll give up and bow out. how about that. why even start shit idk, i'm sure you're a pretty cool person when you wanna be. you put half as much effort into that as you do all of this and, idk, at least i wouldn't be bouncing because i think you're having a temper tantrum.
and i know, i'm being really incendiary. really, really incendiary. it's been 6 hours since i asked mods to clean up the shit posting and moderate this thread and you've been here for 6 hours non stop with your bullshit. you can just not. u know, YOU could just not be this way. an dit would have solved your problem with me 6 hours ago. but you chose to do this for some reason. so, deal with yourself, would you.
Matt, chill talk, we'll do it again, gnight, i'll answer your previous question though, but i am going to see if i can get a better answer than just off the top of my head as to how the jewel selection is decided upon. ttyl
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 7 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,151
@1,235,148 (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
So you go on about how Matt has a genuine interest literally right after he "genuinely" responds: @1,235,141 (A) to a sham post that was just copy-pasted bits of your posts in a random order. Some conversation the two of you are having.
Multiple people already told you he isn't seriously interested in anything you're saying. Clearly he isn't reading what you're writing. And if you want to continue denying this fact at this point, you're simply delusional.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 11 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,152
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
What the fuck are you even talking about? Get the fuck out of here with your Matt obsession, you cocksucking moron.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,154
@1,235,152 (A)
The gig's up. We all knew you weren't reading squeegee's posts and had zero interest in a genuine conversation. Multiple people pointed it out, but now it's been demonstrated so clearly that not even squeegee can continue to deny it.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,155
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
Dude, your "random post" was talking about jewels. How could I possibly know that it was copied and pasted? You are even using his name, idiot. I am talking about jewels, and so is Squeegee. Now, for the love of all that is good, STOP YOUR MATT OBSESSION and STOP HIJACKING EVERY SINGLE THREAD. Squeegee and I want to discuss this without your fucking psychotic obsession. Seriously, fuck off and die.
Specious Niggling Effulgence replied with this 2 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,158
@1,235,155 (A)
Everything in the sham post had already been posted ITT. If you had been reading what squeegee posted you should've easily caught that. Also, it was in a random order so didn't make sense anyway. So even if you hadn't been reading squeegee's prior posts, you should've caught it regardless.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,159
@previous (Specious Niggling Effulgence)
Bullshit. In a thread with hundreds of posts, I cannot possibly remember everything everyone said, ESPECIALLY if you are using the same name and posting stuff about the exact same thing I was talking about. Now FUCK OFF.
> What the fuck are you even talking about? Get the fuck out of here with your Matt obsession, you cocksucking moron.
He's talking about how you got caught not actually reading anything squeegee is writing. You responded 3 times to the same copy-pasted wall of text, not realising you'd already replied.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,312
Squeegee, I am not sure I ever asked you if YOU have a wristwatch that you regularly wear. I would be interested to hear about it. Also, given the jewels discussion, I wanted to ask, do CLOCKS (not watches) have jewels too?
squeegee joined in and replied with this 2 years ago, 5 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,365
@1,235,323 (I)
are you fucking stupid? yes, yes you are fucking stupid. quit making up questions you think are technical and clever, "what kind of voltages do you think are best for your PC to run on?" get the fuck out
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 11 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,393
@previous (I)
Why are you forcing your unwelcome questions on Matt? Matt was never forcing questions on me, I welcomed questions. Matt has answered enough of your pestering.
How about you, I ask you to answer every question you've asked Matt, I wanna know about bands and colors and screws and watches. Answer them, question guy, ANSWERs Nao!
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 52 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,407
@1,235,394 (A)
oh, believe me, i can imagine. yes sirree bob's ur uncle. what's sad it it could be a lot less miserable for him and everyone, but that's just not how this is going to go. not with a personality type of that disorder. nope. there's only one thing you can do. let everyone see and have a nice long thorough look. not at their lies, or tricks, or obfuscations. let them look and see the one thing that scares them the most. how humble, and mistaken, and wrong they can be, and not find any strength in it. but that's where the rest of us thrive.
in hindsight, we can right the ship. if you try to plot your way through shallow waters you'll get stuck there. sorry, i have a vacation comin up soon and we're going to do a couple o days of sailing and i've never been before and it sounds awesome. but yeah, uh, alright then, ok. cya
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 6 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,412
@1,235,397 (T)
also, there's nothing wrong with any of that. is he a good and decent person? or does he get his kicks off of lying, manipulating, harassing, and harming the reputation of others? speaking of which, what are you trying to do by bring up stuff that doesn't directly impact the lives of people around him? that's.... weird. it's behavior that makes a person of value or one worth nothing. not.... circumstances or interests or station. i'm friends with a cat that lives under my porch named booger. but booger is just chill and cool af.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 2 years ago, 34 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,419
(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Do clocks use jewels? Sorry to repeat, I just wonder. If not, how do they handle friction? My grandmother had this great old pendulum clock. God, I wish I still had it. You had to wind it with a key.
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,421
@1,235,419 (A)
some do, yep, they're more rare than in watches just because of the sheer size of the gear pivots in clocks, much bigger. but synthetic ruby pallets are uncommon, in the web clock i made i gave it red pallets to emulate the appearance of ruby. but, also some do indeed have doughnut shaped rubies that act as the pivot for gear shafts.
most clocks are brass plates, and steel shafts, and you can drill the pivot directly into the plate and you polish it out and for heavier shafts you can press into the brass place a much thicker bronze bushing. so, there's a few way o do all that. even bearing are used, but munch less frequently
Cool Team No Virgins replied with this 2 years ago, 3 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,444
@previous (A)
lolol, yep, but it'd be like saying i can recommend some brands of food. you'll need to refine that question and distil it into some kind of drink, and i can recommend the meal you'll find pairs well and fills you up.
Cool Team No Virgins triple-posted this 2 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,449
it's hard to know the answer to that question without context, but i'll get you there. don't think in terms of money. that's not what's even important. think about it in terms of time. how much time are you looking for your clock to be a feature of your life. you want something that is a fun, kinda cool bit of decor that you don't see yourself jumping out of the window of your burning house, or do you like the idea of having something so important that it's the thing that you'd save above most others?
true story - you'd be kinda shocked how many people watch their house burn down with their kids, spouses, pets, and the dang wall clock. another guy pushed a grandfather clock out a living room window and dragged it out into the yard like it was his wife too. why? because clocks are special. they aren't like any other furniture you own and use, but they are furniture. and they can be as beautiful as any artwork or sculpture without being just another artwork and thing that doesn't do anything but be looked at. but, you do look at it. you start to rely on it. and every week, you touch it, and wind it, and make it work. you keep it alive. and it's got hands, and a face, some have a voice, and you get not ever so you're used to it, but so used to it you need to hear it and it makes you calm. and they tick, about as often as your heart beats in a minute. a person and a clock have that in common too. 31,536,000 beats per year. a heart, or a clock, about the same. now, knowing all that could be how you come to appreciate having it it your life, how much are you looking to spend?
and then tell me who you'd pick, Ginger, or mary ann
which one you are, professor, captain, thurston howell.
Cool Team No Virgins replied with this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,453
omega watches make me think of billboards and James Bond spokesmanship. i'm sure it made them a lot of money, and i'm sure their nice, but makes me surprised Patek didn't license the right s to make Transformers watches. or Rolex being the watch of the Avengers.
Which company is making the Licensed Rogue Squadron Wristwatch? cause that's a think. lol. go look up the star wars squadron watch or whatever. it's not the most awful thing in the world, actually, i almost dig it. but not with the branding. idk. thatd be a hard sell. to me. go look at it
Cool Team No Virgins double-posted this 2 years ago, 8 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#1,235,454
@1,235,452 (I)
well that betrays a bit of intention, cause, no, y'all don't have opinions. you barely have motivations that aren't identical. you're 2 sides of the same coin. you're like a bird dog on point. why are you so interested in what he's interested in? i'm interested in knowing both of you, and y'all are interested in proving you know something. you want to know his opinion, yet you've already decided that for him. that what you're trying to prove. and you think no one knows you, but i got you pegged. why not do something different today. and tomorrow you can bark and point and you can do that. but just this one day, try something different. up to you.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 13 hours later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,690
Squeegee, would you say that the best Japanese watches are better or worse than the best Swiss watches, and why? I trust Japanese workers and work culture more, but that is just in general.
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 51 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,698
@previous (A)
whole industry supply chain, i can't speak to. you need a watchmaker to have an opinion that broad. till the 90s, hand down swiss. just better tooling. japan caught up a while back. the real question is where chinese precision tooling standards are.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 2 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,699
@previous (squeegee)
Chinese are still not up to task. I am considering work culture and expertise and the way that work is looked at in both cultures. In Japan, a person's identity and pride are about his or her work. It is also a very hierarchical society. The person making those precision watch parts takes it as life or death serious, as a matter of honor. I know the Swiss are exact, but they do not look at work like that.
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,702
@previous (A)
yeah, but that doesn't mean anything to a cnc gear cutting setup at orders of magnitude differences on precision. it's just a matter of metrics in the materials and where the plateaus are cut off.
Ken-ichi replied with this 2 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,765
@previous (squeegee)
The metrics in the materials have very little to do with any of this in modern manufacturing facilities. The calibration and tolerances of the machines are virtually all that matters. And these calibrations are solely dictated by the artisan's personal skill and respect for the craft.
Ken-ichi double-posted this 2 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,766
@1,235,699 (A)
This is exactly correct. I implore you to seek out knowledge from the masters. That is, those of us whose family honour is at stake and those of us who take great pride in perfecting the craft. Not so sure that level of respect can be found at American walk-in dime-store clock shop from person with little respect and relationship with own family.
squeegee quadruple-posted this 2 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,775
because the metrics of the parts, the materials that go into assembling a product, are the major component where quality of craftsmanship is in question. and manufacturing the parts is a machining process. and at the highest levels it looks vastly different from more traditional methods of manufacturing.
you're talking out of your ass and making stuff up to be disagreeable, and all it does is add to the rest of the lies you make shit up about. what DO you know about? besides kimmo quotes and everything everyone on the board has said. this is the only thing you have expertise on. you know everything about the lives of people on here that you apparently resent not having. why?
squeegee replied with this 2 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,782
@previous (A)
it is astonishingly obsessive. i wouldn't believe it if i wasn't seeing it. he literally is completely detached from any kind of reality. every single thing he says is pretend.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 2 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^][v]#1,235,787
(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
So sad. What a waste of what could have been a good life. I hope it is not too late for him to turn his life around.