Topic: Fox News calls family brave for transitioning child "before he could talk".
Anonymous A started this discussion 3 years ago #104,597
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6307583800112/
Even the right wing news outlets are affirming transitioning before someone is capable of communicating.
The host even said if the family wasn't "brave" enough to transition their nonverbal child that it could have meant self-harm or suicide.
Even the right wing news outlets are affirming transitioning before someone is capable of communicating.
The host even said if the family wasn't "brave" enough to transition their nonverbal child that it could have meant self-harm or suicide.
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 7 minutes later[^] [v] #1,177,412
gay boring gay and boring
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 9 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,413
Cute baby. Still in nappies. Are boy nappies different than girl nappies?
Anonymous C double-posted this 3 years ago, 3 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,418
Hard to believe that Fox news is peddling trans propaganda. Maybe I woke up in an alternate universe.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 7 minutes later, 20 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,420
@previous (C)
If you've paid off most media outlets, it's only a matter of time before the final holdouts cave.
There's no network that will talk about slicing up and medicating healthy kids in a neutral framing, let alone a critical perspective. You either agree, or you are supporting child suicides.
Even the "right wing" network is saying people don't need verbal requests or consent to do this, and shaming those who disagree.
America was conquered years ago, but it's become more obvious now.
If you've paid off most media outlets, it's only a matter of time before the final holdouts cave.
There's no network that will talk about slicing up and medicating healthy kids in a neutral framing, let alone a critical perspective. You either agree, or you are supporting child suicides.
Even the "right wing" network is saying people don't need verbal requests or consent to do this, and shaming those who disagree.
America was conquered years ago, but it's become more obvious now.
(Edited 26 seconds later.)
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 5 minutes later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,421
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 59 seconds later, 26 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,423
OP supports baby suicide!
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 33 seconds later, 27 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,424
This feels like it will have a sad ending
Anonymous D replied with this 3 years ago, 21 seconds later, 27 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,425
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,430
@1,177,424 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
Where do you think he'll take the skin for his operation?
I would use my arm because everyone would see the scar.
Where do you think he'll take the skin for his operation?
I would use my arm because everyone would see the scar.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 52 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,431
Anonymous C replied with this 3 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,432
I guess there's a natural limit of young children who want to change gender. One in 1000 is probably alright. One in 100 you start to worry. One in 10 is too high. What's the current number? No idea but it's probably one in 1000 or less.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,433
@1,177,430 (A)
You'd want them to see the scar? At the facility, they'd use thigh meat for a lot of things
You'd want them to see the scar? At the facility, they'd use thigh meat for a lot of things
Meta !Sober//iZs joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,434
What you've got to realize is the Republicans are the Democratic party on a 10-15 year delay. Guaranteed there will be a giant rainbow flag flying over RNC headquarters during Pride Month 2030.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,435
@1,177,432 (C)
Now they can tell you they are trans before they can tell you anything at all. And right wing media will clap for you because you saw it so early.
So how many parents like attention? The numbers of trans youth are going to go up.
Now they can tell you they are trans before they can tell you anything at all. And right wing media will clap for you because you saw it so early.
So how many parents like attention? The numbers of trans youth are going to go up.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,437
Anonymous E replied with this 3 years ago, 40 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,177,438
One seems obsessed with transgenderism. 🤔🤔🤔
!MLHqI35Srs joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 2 days later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,015
Pseudoeugy; Korean diplomacies will be informed, even telekinetically!
I could probably minimally effort this as it evidently speaks of something before legitimate degradation points: we've decided to Drave's civilization in hyperloquacious manipulativcaicisticism, hence I reprogue and withdraw all American recogntions to whatever extent of those and hence return in somewhat mournful regret my Associate's Theoretical-Statistological degree.
Update via. cexualanduariacistiariafax: RASON, SONGUN COURTS, b., a., '23, SOME FEMININE MISBEHAVIOUR (BRYTAR CIVILIZATION-STYLE PSEUDO-ANTI-SOCIAL INTELLECTUALLY-DEGENERATIVE DOWN'S SYNDROMIC PSEUDO-HYPERSOCIAEIALITY in THEIR STYLE)
- Secondarily, b., a., '24, FEMININE MISBEHAVIOUR POINT REMOVED; DYSGENICS SONGBUN RECATEGORIZATION WAS RE-ORGANIZED WAVERING TO LOWESTMOST-EQUINANIMITY BORDERLINE AGAINST PARTY-INNERY
- Secondarily, b., a., '24, FEMININE MISBEHAVIOUR POINT REMOVED; DYSGENICS SONGBUN RECATEGORIZATION WAS RE-ORGANIZED WAVERING TO LOWESTMOST-EQUINANIMITY BORDERLINE AGAINST PARTY-INNERY
I could probably minimally effort this as it evidently speaks of something before legitimate degradation points: we've decided to Drave's civilization in hyperloquacious manipulativcaicisticism, hence I reprogue and withdraw all American recogntions to whatever extent of those and hence return in somewhat mournful regret my Associate's Theoretical-Statistological degree.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
boof joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 5 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,051
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 6 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,086
According to the news report, the kid didn't "come out" until the age of five. The parents didn't immediately accept the situation, believing, in the mother's words, that sex and gender are the same. It's clear that the 'transition' didn't begin before Ryland could talk.
NB: in the present day, it's not unusual for females to wear traditionally masculine clothing, cut their hair short or engage in stereotypically 'male' behavior. Would the story be so controversial if Ryland simply presented as a "tomboy?"
NB: in the present day, it's not unusual for females to wear traditionally masculine clothing, cut their hair short or engage in stereotypically 'male' behavior. Would the story be so controversial if Ryland simply presented as a "tomboy?"
boof replied with this 3 years ago, 4 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,112
I think a lot of unnecessary confusion arises from the group of academics that has chosen to shrink the less confusing term "gender identity" to merely "gender". Gender, in general parlance, is a synonym for sex, while "gender identity" is unambiguously not synonymous.
!MLHqI35Srs joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 7 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,134
Drave's raciological identity will naturally exacerbate with the dispersal the MtF mode in the style civilizationizatorializatoraicistically available, even, liberal-democratic civilizations, societies and cultures (forgetting badly funded extreme leagues; *chops loudly but inconspicuously*) involving much of the VIQ disguise of PIQ'*g(delta')-decline which will result in the proclaimed, weak accusation that of the mere "racism" against mullae.
Rather I'd throw these MtF psychopaths in "the closest thing to advanced sperg" and hope containment has them uniformly only able to sing Punggu Taryeong and perform advanced-ish pre-Calculus at the highest epoch and sociopath-trait zephyloch of their ability but nothing further, as is the TRUTH of their beating worthy bullshit.
Look, it's why, before deletion altogether just for being a loser, the Pentagon went as far as to de-Electraicize Retrospections, Final.
Rather I'd throw these MtF psychopaths in "the closest thing to advanced sperg" and hope containment has them uniformly only able to sing Punggu Taryeong and perform advanced-ish pre-Calculus at the highest epoch and sociopath-trait zephyloch of their ability but nothing further, as is the TRUTH of their beating worthy bullshit.
Look, it's why, before deletion altogether just for being a loser, the Pentagon went as far as to de-Electraicize Retrospections, Final.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 7 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,180
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 36 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,184
What the fuck is this place's obsession with trannies?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 4 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,237
Anonymous B replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,238
Anonymous B double-posted this 3 years ago, 16 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,239
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 6 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,240
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,242
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 33 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,243
Anonymous J replied with this 3 years ago, 4 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,285
@1,178,180 (A)
I don't know, I've seen no statistical data on that subject. The news report doesn't mention any hormonal treatments or surgery, either.
I don't know, I've seen no statistical data on that subject. The news report doesn't mention any hormonal treatments or surgery, either.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,286
Anonymous J replied with this 3 years ago, 45 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,292
@previous (A)
I'm unable to access that article. If it's the same as this one, it makes no mention of either surgery or hormone treatment for minors under the age of 18. I'll assume you're aware that puberty blockers merely suppress certain hormones and have no permanent effect on the human body.
Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical and/or hormonal procedure? The kid in the news report simply looks like a short-haired teenaged girl wearing a shirt and jeans.
I'm unable to access that article. If it's the same as this one, it makes no mention of either surgery or hormone treatment for minors under the age of 18. I'll assume you're aware that puberty blockers merely suppress certain hormones and have no permanent effect on the human body.
Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical and/or hormonal procedure? The kid in the news report simply looks like a short-haired teenaged girl wearing a shirt and jeans.
!MLHqI35Srs joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 21 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,298
@1,178,184 (L)
These are, Varsen bots. The structure of board; in the current version a Nederlander paedophile, Varsden is the monolith.
*shows around the masoleum in its Pyongyangite glory? Please, it is sleazier than a Macau dirt-race bar*
Varsden raciological aspirations, are Schwartzkopf-Switzerland "patience girl" aspirations of the Irriqois; "can my 'child's' violated existence as a Dr. Kidd, Dalgsen or Varsden-Lauretsonian robot function entirely sexologically?".
"Can we putate the Final Retrospection expectation to demerovignianize pseudo-'autistic' tragedy?"
Or de-putate, whatever.
Well, my step- and the ibrha differ under the trajectorializatory result gains of Andersonian rationalism, fearfully. It's to say, I ethically give up at the point of fraud-doctor quite finely knowing my superior ethics.
I don't see why a Dravinid-class pseudointellectual playing with a sony-architecture inspired supercomputer to torture me should get the say in even marionettingly arse-puppeteering what of it it is that I observe, deserve to think, etc.; much I arouse some of the thought, not understanding some random inadvertencies to turn... :/ (I refer to complete freak shit)
You're all in a room Rand-pseudodebating this somewhere. It's nauseating.
You need to stop allowing Lindsay's, et al., brain, feigning spontaneity sans carbometric-class lithiums or catatonic largactils. [Allegoration: wherever you might even agree escotchairially -_-]
These are, Varsen bots. The structure of board; in the current version a Nederlander paedophile, Varsden is the monolith.
*shows around the masoleum in its Pyongyangite glory? Please, it is sleazier than a Macau dirt-race bar*
Varsden raciological aspirations, are Schwartzkopf-Switzerland "patience girl" aspirations of the Irriqois; "can my 'child's' violated existence as a Dr. Kidd, Dalgsen or Varsden-Lauretsonian robot function entirely sexologically?".
"Can we putate the Final Retrospection expectation to demerovignianize pseudo-'autistic' tragedy?"
Or de-putate, whatever.
Well, my step- and the ibrha differ under the trajectorializatory result gains of Andersonian rationalism, fearfully. It's to say, I ethically give up at the point of fraud-doctor quite finely knowing my superior ethics.
I don't see why a Dravinid-class pseudointellectual playing with a sony-architecture inspired supercomputer to torture me should get the say in even marionettingly arse-puppeteering what of it it is that I observe, deserve to think, etc.; much I arouse some of the thought, not understanding some random inadvertencies to turn... :/ (I refer to complete freak shit)
You're all in a room Rand-pseudodebating this somewhere. It's nauseating.
You need to stop allowing Lindsay's, et al., brain, feigning spontaneity sans carbometric-class lithiums or catatonic largactils. [Allegoration: wherever you might even agree escotchairially -_-]
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 6 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,333
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 4 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,350
@1,178,292 (J)
> I'll assume you're aware that puberty blockers merely suppress certain hormones and have no permanent effect on the human body.
Puberty is a major part of development, you can't stop it for a few years and expect someone would turn out the same.
In fact that's the point of TRAs saying kids need them young, because there will be permanent changes for those who undergo puberty.
> Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical and/or hormonal procedure? The kid in the news report simply looks like a short-haired teenaged girl wearing a shirt and jeans.
Probably on puberty blockers if they haven't developed a feminine shape at all.
Stopping those doesn't magically spin back time. Once that critical period of development is over, it's over. That's why adults who took these drugs don't just go through puberty if they stop in their early 20s.
> I'll assume you're aware that puberty blockers merely suppress certain hormones and have no permanent effect on the human body.
Puberty is a major part of development, you can't stop it for a few years and expect someone would turn out the same.
In fact that's the point of TRAs saying kids need them young, because there will be permanent changes for those who undergo puberty.
> Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical and/or hormonal procedure? The kid in the news report simply looks like a short-haired teenaged girl wearing a shirt and jeans.
Probably on puberty blockers if they haven't developed a feminine shape at all.
Stopping those doesn't magically spin back time. Once that critical period of development is over, it's over. That's why adults who took these drugs don't just go through puberty if they stop in their early 20s.
(Edited 27 seconds later.)
Anonymous J replied with this 3 years ago, 10 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,439
@previous (A)
> Stopping those doesn't magically spin back time. Once that critical period of development is over, it's over. That's why adults who took these drugs don't just go through puberty if they stop in their early 20s.
Actually, you're wrong.
> Stopping those doesn't magically spin back time. Once that critical period of development is over, it's over. That's why adults who took these drugs don't just go through puberty if they stop in their early 20s.
Actually, you're wrong.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,440
@previous (J)
Show one case where someone stopped puberty during adolescence and continued it in adulthood.
Show one case where someone stopped puberty during adolescence and continued it in adulthood.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 16 seconds later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,441
Anonymous J replied with this 3 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,444
@1,178,333 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
How young are we talking? As I understand it, TOP surgery for minors require parental consent and documentation from at least two medical professionals. Also, how many is "a lot" in this scenario? Do you consider Reddit to be a reliable source of statistical information?
How young are we talking? As I understand it, TOP surgery for minors require parental consent and documentation from at least two medical professionals. Also, how many is "a lot" in this scenario? Do you consider Reddit to be a reliable source of statistical information?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,445
Anonymous J replied with this 3 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,447
@1,178,441 (A)
Can't be bothered tracking down specific examples, especially when medical reports state that puberty blockers have no permanent effect on the human body.
Why haven't you addressed other points I raised? Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical procedure? Do you believe that Ryland's transition began before they could actually speak? Do you consider it unusual for females to wear traditionally masculine clothing, cut their hair short or engage in stereotypically 'male' behavior in the present day?
Also: do you know for certain that Ryland Whittington is on puberty blockers? If they are, do you think they should be forced to stop using them?
Can't be bothered tracking down specific examples, especially when medical reports state that puberty blockers have no permanent effect on the human body.
Why haven't you addressed other points I raised? Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical procedure? Do you believe that Ryland's transition began before they could actually speak? Do you consider it unusual for females to wear traditionally masculine clothing, cut their hair short or engage in stereotypically 'male' behavior in the present day?
Also: do you know for certain that Ryland Whittington is on puberty blockers? If they are, do you think they should be forced to stop using them?
Anonymous J double-posted this 3 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,448
@1,178,445 (A)
In which part of the United States can a minor request sexual reassignment treatment without parental consent and medical/psychological counseling?
In which part of the United States can a minor request sexual reassignment treatment without parental consent and medical/psychological counseling?
Anonymous J triple-posted this 3 years ago, 51 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,452
@previous (J)
* In which part of the United States can a minor receive sexual reassignment treatment without parental consent and medical/psychological counseling?
Rewording previous post to avoid confusion.
* In which part of the United States can a minor receive sexual reassignment treatment without parental consent and medical/psychological counseling?
Rewording previous post to avoid confusion.
boof replied with this 3 years ago, 46 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,455
yechhh
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 19 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,457
@1,178,447 (J)
> medical reports state that puberty blockers have no permanent effect on the human body.
Show a single case of someone taking puberty blockers in adolescence and then stopping to develop normally as an adult.
Sex hormones make permanent changes to people during their development. If you're already grown, and took blockers, you're forever prebubescant.
> Why haven't you addressed other points I raised? Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical procedure?
Rylass is probably on blockers.
> medical reports state that puberty blockers have no permanent effect on the human body.
Show a single case of someone taking puberty blockers in adolescence and then stopping to develop normally as an adult.
Sex hormones make permanent changes to people during their development. If you're already grown, and took blockers, you're forever prebubescant.
> Why haven't you addressed other points I raised? Do you believe that Ryland Whittington has undergone some form of surgical procedure?
Rylass is probably on blockers.
Anonymous C replied with this 3 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,462
@1,178,445 (A)
> Minors can make medical decisions with a doctor without parental consent.
But can 5 year olds?
> Minors can make medical decisions with a doctor without parental consent.
But can 5 year olds?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 12 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,463
@previous (C)
The parents are clearly supportive in this situation, so it's a different issue.
If the parents, doctor, and groomed child all play along then blockers are easy to get.
The parents are clearly supportive in this situation, so it's a different issue.
If the parents, doctor, and groomed child all play along then blockers are easy to get.
Anonymous C replied with this 3 years ago, 42 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,468
@previous (A)
Yeah. I just wonder if a 5 year old has the mental capacity to decide on a sex change. Most children that age are stupid, some can't even talk properly. Back when I was younger than 10 I had an "imaginary friend", what about if I had decided that I wanted to be a girl. Wake up at the age of 20, realise it's a huge mistake.
Yeah. I just wonder if a 5 year old has the mental capacity to decide on a sex change. Most children that age are stupid, some can't even talk properly. Back when I was younger than 10 I had an "imaginary friend", what about if I had decided that I wanted to be a girl. Wake up at the age of 20, realise it's a huge mistake.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 3 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,481
Anonymous J replied with this 3 years ago, 8 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,623
@1,178,457 (A)
> If you're already grown, and took blockers, you're forever prebubescent.
Where are you getting your information? I'd be genuinely interested in reading any peer reviewed medical study which shows that the effects of puberty blockers are non-reversible.
> Ryland is probably on blockers.
If this turns out to be true, do you believe they should be forced to stop using them?
Also: in which US state can a minor receive sexual reassignment treatment without parental consent and medical/psycological counseling?
Do you believe that Ryland's transition began before they could actually speak?
Do you consider it unusual for females to wear traditionally masculine clothing, cut their hair short or engage in stereotypically 'male' behavior in the present day?
> If you're already grown, and took blockers, you're forever prebubescent.
Where are you getting your information? I'd be genuinely interested in reading any peer reviewed medical study which shows that the effects of puberty blockers are non-reversible.
> Ryland is probably on blockers.
If this turns out to be true, do you believe they should be forced to stop using them?
Also: in which US state can a minor receive sexual reassignment treatment without parental consent and medical/psycological counseling?
Do you believe that Ryland's transition began before they could actually speak?
Do you consider it unusual for females to wear traditionally masculine clothing, cut their hair short or engage in stereotypically 'male' behavior in the present day?
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,627
@previous (J)
I'd rather see kids get cross sex hormones than puberty blockers
I'd rather see kids get cross sex hormones than puberty blockers
(Edited 8 seconds later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC double-posted this 3 years ago, 33 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,628
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 57 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,630
@1,178,623 (J)
In Oregon those decisions can be made between a patient and doctor without parental consent at 15.
In Oregon those decisions can be made between a patient and doctor without parental consent at 15.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 33 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,633
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,635
boof replied with this 3 years ago, 4 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,723
chemical castrato opera singers?
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 47 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,733
@1,178,630 (A)
Do you have any stats on many teens in Oregon have undergone sexual reassignment without parental consent?
Also, did they do so without psychological/medical counseling?
Do you have any stats on many teens in Oregon have undergone sexual reassignment without parental consent?
Also, did they do so without psychological/medical counseling?
Anonymous B replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,734
@previous (N)
> Do you have any stats on many teens in Oregon have undergone sexual reassignment without parental consent?
>
> Also, did they do so without psychological/medical counseling?
oregon is full of defective weirdos. just let them do whatever
> Do you have any stats on many teens in Oregon have undergone sexual reassignment without parental consent?
>
> Also, did they do so without psychological/medical counseling?
oregon is full of defective weirdos. just let them do whatever
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 20 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,736
@1,178,628 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
I'm not sure what you mean, Kook. As I understand it, Jazz Jennings was on puberty blockers until she underwent sexual reassignment surgery, then went onto female hormones. Did she, at some point, try to go back to living as a man?
I'm not sure what you mean, Kook. As I understand it, Jazz Jennings was on puberty blockers until she underwent sexual reassignment surgery, then went onto female hormones. Did she, at some point, try to go back to living as a man?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,738
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,739
@1,178,734 (B)
The state believes adults can't manage to pump their own gas, but a child not old enough to drive can make their own decision to stop puberty.
The state believes adults can't manage to pump their own gas, but a child not old enough to drive can make their own decision to stop puberty.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 34 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,740
@1,178,736 (N)
No. Her lingering on blockers for so long hurt her physically. I never implied detransitioning
No. Her lingering on blockers for so long hurt her physically. I never implied detransitioning
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC double-posted this 3 years ago, 35 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,741
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,744
@1,178,734 (B)
Maybe so, but it seems highly unlikely that any minor in the US could undergo sexual reassignment treatment (or surgery) without extensive medical and psychological evaluation.
How does it work in Oregon? Can any fifteen year old just walk into a clinic and receive free puberty blockers, no questions asked?
Maybe so, but it seems highly unlikely that any minor in the US could undergo sexual reassignment treatment (or surgery) without extensive medical and psychological evaluation.
How does it work in Oregon? Can any fifteen year old just walk into a clinic and receive free puberty blockers, no questions asked?
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 30 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,745
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 1 second later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,746
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 17 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,747
@1,178,744 (N)
Usually a therapist refers you first, but any doctor can prescribe blockers to a 15 year old without parental permission.
Usually a therapist refers you first, but any doctor can prescribe blockers to a 15 year old without parental permission.
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,748
@1,178,740 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
I though we were talking about whether the effects of puberty blockers were reversible.
I though we were talking about whether the effects of puberty blockers were reversible.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,749
@previous (N)
Listen. Her being on puberty blockers has hurt her physically. I've explained to you before what they did to her
Listen. Her being on puberty blockers has hurt her physically. I've explained to you before what they did to her
(Edited 26 seconds later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 6 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,750
This article came out today: https://nypost.com/2022/06/16/trans-kids-ok-for-hormones-at-14-surgery-at-15-health-group/
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health says Transgender children should be able to get blockers at 14 and surgery at 15.
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health says Transgender children should be able to get blockers at 14 and surgery at 15.
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 45 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,751
@1,178,747 (A)
Let me rephrase my original question:
Where in the US can a minor receive sexual reassignment surgery without either parental consent or medical/psychological counseling?
Let me rephrase my original question:
Where in the US can a minor receive sexual reassignment surgery without either parental consent or medical/psychological counseling?
Anonymous N double-posted this 3 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,755
@1,178,749 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
I think you're mistaking me for someone else, Kook. I haven't discussed Jazz Jennings with you on this thread or any other.
From what I've read, JJ's physical problems were due to the operation, not the puberty blockers. You're already aware that any major surgical procedure carries a degree of risk.
I think you're mistaking me for someone else, Kook. I haven't discussed Jazz Jennings with you on this thread or any other.
From what I've read, JJ's physical problems were due to the operation, not the puberty blockers. You're already aware that any major surgical procedure carries a degree of risk.
(Edited 21 seconds later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,756
@previous (N)
Here are a lost of things that have occurred
1. Has never had an orgasm
2. Is now over 100 pounds overweight, likely do to brain not maturing
3.Penis never grew to a proper size
4. Because penis never grew, she had to have the worst of the types of bottom surgery
5. Because she had to have the colon bottom surgery, it has required 4 additional revisions surgeries to make it not horrifying
Her mother seems like a sick woman who has groomed her daughter
Here are a lost of things that have occurred
1. Has never had an orgasm
2. Is now over 100 pounds overweight, likely do to brain not maturing
3.Penis never grew to a proper size
4. Because penis never grew, she had to have the worst of the types of bottom surgery
5. Because she had to have the colon bottom surgery, it has required 4 additional revisions surgeries to make it not horrifying
Her mother seems like a sick woman who has groomed her daughter
(Edited 54 seconds later.)
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,758
@1,178,750 (A)
Do you believe this recommendation will accepted by all US state and federal governments (and perhaps added to the Constitution as an ammendment?). If so, how long before it's signed into law?
Do you believe this recommendation will accepted by all US state and federal governments (and perhaps added to the Constitution as an ammendment?). If so, how long before it's signed into law?
(Edited 27 minutes later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 12 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,761
@1,178,751 (N)
Nowhere, that was never the claim.
You do need a doctor, but doctors are capable of malpractice.
Consider this doctor: https://nitter.net/MattWalshBlog/status/1532347722111516672?t=nB4QK_kJHq7jdDQWKcU4AQ&s=19
She states she doesn't believe in the truth, that everyone has their own truth. For a professional who is supposed to care about science and objectivity that's a problem.
Later she panics and leaves the interview when Matt points out the drug she prescribed children is used to castrate prisoners. That looks bad, why not stay and explain why it's different? Because she isn't a cool headed health professional, she's using her licence to experiment on children.
Or this surgeon: https://nitter.net/MattWalshBlog/status/1532047084865593347?t=c29ihaSHRwertetZO3Z7tg&s=19
She is transgender herself, and has performed sex change surgeries on kids. She says "only dinosaurs" don't agree with the practice of performing on children.
Nowhere, that was never the claim.
You do need a doctor, but doctors are capable of malpractice.
Consider this doctor: https://nitter.net/MattWalshBlog/status/1532347722111516672?t=nB4QK_kJHq7jdDQWKcU4AQ&s=19
She states she doesn't believe in the truth, that everyone has their own truth. For a professional who is supposed to care about science and objectivity that's a problem.
Later she panics and leaves the interview when Matt points out the drug she prescribed children is used to castrate prisoners. That looks bad, why not stay and explain why it's different? Because she isn't a cool headed health professional, she's using her licence to experiment on children.
Or this surgeon: https://nitter.net/MattWalshBlog/status/1532047084865593347?t=c29ihaSHRwertetZO3Z7tg&s=19
She is transgender herself, and has performed sex change surgeries on kids. She says "only dinosaurs" don't agree with the practice of performing on children.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,762
@1,178,758 (N)
Some states made it legal before this recommendation came out.
Oregon already allows 15 year olds to get both blockers and surgery.
Some states made it legal before this recommendation came out.
Oregon already allows 15 year olds to get both blockers and surgery.
Anonymous O replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,763
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,764
Anonymous O replied with this 3 years ago, 43 seconds later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,765
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,766
@1,178,756 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
Yes, I'm aware of all that. The point I'm making is that if she had decided to go off the puberty blockers prior to the surgery, her endocrine system would have returned to its normal parameters. OP has consistently denied this throughout the discussion, despite the majority of medical experts stating that the effects of puberty blockers are completely reversible.
RE: Jazz Jennings:
If I'm reading the dates correctly, she was almost 18 when she underwent the first surgery. I assume that her specialists informed her of the potential risks involved. Perhaps she should have waited another four months until her birthday, but I suspect she still would have made the same decision.
Yes, I'm aware of all that. The point I'm making is that if she had decided to go off the puberty blockers prior to the surgery, her endocrine system would have returned to its normal parameters. OP has consistently denied this throughout the discussion, despite the majority of medical experts stating that the effects of puberty blockers are completely reversible.
RE: Jazz Jennings:
If I'm reading the dates correctly, she was almost 18 when she underwent the first surgery. I assume that her specialists informed her of the potential risks involved. Perhaps she should have waited another four months until her birthday, but I suspect she still would have made the same decision.
Anonymous N double-posted this 3 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,767
@1,178,762 (A)
Do you believe it will become legal across the entire United States? If so, when do you believe that will happen?
Do you believe it will become legal across the entire United States? If so, when do you believe that will happen?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,768
@1,178,766 (N)
If your endocrine system is artificially inhibited during your critical development years, and "returns to normal parameters" after you stop growing then you will have permanent changes to your body compared to someone who had normal hormones during that period.
Yes, you might have a blood test that shows the exact same levels of testosterone/estrogen but the structure of the person's genitalia/chest/bones/muscle did not go through the physical changes that would have happened during their growth. That's a permanent structural change.
If your endocrine system is artificially inhibited during your critical development years, and "returns to normal parameters" after you stop growing then you will have permanent changes to your body compared to someone who had normal hormones during that period.
Yes, you might have a blood test that shows the exact same levels of testosterone/estrogen but the structure of the person's genitalia/chest/bones/muscle did not go through the physical changes that would have happened during their growth. That's a permanent structural change.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,769
@1,178,766 (N)
We don't know that. They're finding that bone density issues may occur from the use of long term puberty blockers. And possibly issues with organ growth
Also she had a life changing surgery before she was 18 and she isn't happy now
We don't know that. They're finding that bone density issues may occur from the use of long term puberty blockers. And possibly issues with organ growth
Also she had a life changing surgery before she was 18 and she isn't happy now
(Edited 47 seconds later.)
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 7 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,770
@1,178,768 (A)
Are you certain about that? Again, I'd be very interested in reading any peer reviewed medical study which shows that the effects of puberty blockers are irreversible.
According to the current literature, growth (including the changes which occur during puberty) is controlled by the pituitary gland; blockers can temporarily suppress the secretions, but once the blockers are removed, the gland would return to normal functions and puberty would ensue.
Are you certain about that? Again, I'd be very interested in reading any peer reviewed medical study which shows that the effects of puberty blockers are irreversible.
According to the current literature, growth (including the changes which occur during puberty) is controlled by the pituitary gland; blockers can temporarily suppress the secretions, but once the blockers are removed, the gland would return to normal functions and puberty would ensue.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,771
@previous (N)
How can someone grow a fatter chest, bigger dick, or develop curves or a square jawline after they stop growing?
How can someone grow a fatter chest, bigger dick, or develop curves or a square jawline after they stop growing?
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 18 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,774
@1,178,769 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> We don't know that.
You're completely correct.
> she had a life changing surgery before she was 18 and she isn't happy now
Again, completely correct. But she could have had the surgery after 18 and still have been just as unhappy.
And for all we know, she might have been miserable no matter what choices she made. I can't really address whether she would have been happier living as a conventional male because, as you pointed out - there's no way of knowing.
> They're finding that bone density issues may occur from the use of long term puberty blockers. And possibly issues with organ growth.
Surely these can be dealt with under close medical supervision? We can prevent calcium deficiency during pregnancy and safely deliver a child without mortally wounding the mother. I'm not trying to be facetious, but are puberty blockers more dangerous than giving birth?
> We don't know that.
You're completely correct.
> she had a life changing surgery before she was 18 and she isn't happy now
Again, completely correct. But she could have had the surgery after 18 and still have been just as unhappy.
And for all we know, she might have been miserable no matter what choices she made. I can't really address whether she would have been happier living as a conventional male because, as you pointed out - there's no way of knowing.
> They're finding that bone density issues may occur from the use of long term puberty blockers. And possibly issues with organ growth.
Surely these can be dealt with under close medical supervision? We can prevent calcium deficiency during pregnancy and safely deliver a child without mortally wounding the mother. I'm not trying to be facetious, but are puberty blockers more dangerous than giving birth?
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,775
@previous (N)
Well generally we don't encourage people to give birth before they are adults.
Also bone density issues can be a serious problems that only using supplements wont fix and that become much more serious as you grow older
Well generally we don't encourage people to give birth before they are adults.
Also bone density issues can be a serious problems that only using supplements wont fix and that become much more serious as you grow older
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC double-posted this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,777
@1,178,774 (N)
Also also having her situation or being a conventional male aren't the only two choices
Also also having her situation or being a conventional male aren't the only two choices
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 6 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,778
@1,178,771 (A)
The growth is delayed, not ended. Once the pituitary gland returns to normal functions, the growth process continues from where it left off. The only way to terminate it would be to cut the gland out completely.
In addition, we have no way of knowing how Ryland's physique might develop if they never take puberty blockers. There are plenty of small breasted, slim hipped women in this world. Ryland might have been one of them.
BTW: Do you believe that Ryland should be prevent from using puberty blockers?
The growth is delayed, not ended. Once the pituitary gland returns to normal functions, the growth process continues from where it left off. The only way to terminate it would be to cut the gland out completely.
In addition, we have no way of knowing how Ryland's physique might develop if they never take puberty blockers. There are plenty of small breasted, slim hipped women in this world. Ryland might have been one of them.
BTW: Do you believe that Ryland should be prevent from using puberty blockers?
(Edited 19 minutes later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,779
Also I don't respect parents who turn their children into activists. They're almost worse than stage moms
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC double-posted this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,780
@1,178,778 (N)
I've been seeing people on Twitter talk about how blockers made their organs not form properly, but no confirmation on that
I've been seeing people on Twitter talk about how blockers made their organs not form properly, but no confirmation on that
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 10 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,784
@1,178,775 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
> Well generally we don't encourage people to give birth before they are adults.
True. But teen pregnancy is still pretty common in the present day.
> bone density issues can be a serious problems that only using supplements wont fix and that become much more serious as you grow older
Surely those problems could effect anybody, Kook. Many of my extended family developed degenerative arthritis after the age of forty. It probably runs in the genes, but it seems pretty common in the wider community too.
> Also also having her situation or being a conventional male aren't the only two choices
Again, completely true. Hopefully, she was appraised of all of her options in the years leading up to her first operation. That would be the point of psychological counseling.
> Well generally we don't encourage people to give birth before they are adults.
True. But teen pregnancy is still pretty common in the present day.
> bone density issues can be a serious problems that only using supplements wont fix and that become much more serious as you grow older
Surely those problems could effect anybody, Kook. Many of my extended family developed degenerative arthritis after the age of forty. It probably runs in the genes, but it seems pretty common in the wider community too.
> Also also having her situation or being a conventional male aren't the only two choices
Again, completely true. Hopefully, she was appraised of all of her options in the years leading up to her first operation. That would be the point of psychological counseling.
(Edited 31 seconds later.)
Anonymous N double-posted this 3 years ago, 5 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,786
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 47 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,797
@1,178,778 (N)
> The growth is delayed, not ended. Once the pituitary gland returns to normal functions, the growth process continues from where it left off. The only way to terminate it would be to cut the gland out completely.
No, the pituitary gland secretes hormones, and if you are in the process of growing that will affect how you grow.
Resuming normal hormones as an adult isn't the same as having those same hormones affecting development when you are getting taller and your organs are growing into their full size.
Same reason why you can't just take HRT as an adult an expect to look like the same as a cisgender. They had those hormones during the limited period of development, the adult transitioner did not.
> BTW: Do you believe that Ryland should be prevent from using puberty blockers?
Yes, children should not have natural development stopped.
> The growth is delayed, not ended. Once the pituitary gland returns to normal functions, the growth process continues from where it left off. The only way to terminate it would be to cut the gland out completely.
No, the pituitary gland secretes hormones, and if you are in the process of growing that will affect how you grow.
Resuming normal hormones as an adult isn't the same as having those same hormones affecting development when you are getting taller and your organs are growing into their full size.
Same reason why you can't just take HRT as an adult an expect to look like the same as a cisgender. They had those hormones during the limited period of development, the adult transitioner did not.
> BTW: Do you believe that Ryland should be prevent from using puberty blockers?
Yes, children should not have natural development stopped.
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,799
@previous (A)
> Yes, children should not have natural development stopped.
Then I guess there's nothing more to discuss.
> Yes, children should not have natural development stopped.
Then I guess there's nothing more to discuss.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,801
@previous (N)
Do you believe a child can understand the consequences of stopping natural hormones during the years their body is taking on it's long-term shape?
Do you believe a child can understand the consequences of stopping natural hormones during the years their body is taking on it's long-term shape?
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 20 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,805
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 3 years ago, 18 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,812
@previous (N)
You are convinced hormone exposure in adulthood has the same effect as hormone exposure during development.
It would be meaningless to continue to talk to someone that is ignorant of such basic biology.
I agree, good day sur.
You are convinced hormone exposure in adulthood has the same effect as hormone exposure during development.
It would be meaningless to continue to talk to someone that is ignorant of such basic biology.
I agree, good day sur.
!MLHqI35Srs joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 43 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,824
I've a way in reverse of arguing back-to-front much of the intellectual capacities of the irriqois and P-Bythrion in particular statisticologically and yes it refers to over-focussing on segments of ancestral populational strands that look about as incidentally White as Whitened-by-tax-code-Europeans but hey, if you want to play Autism and Gender Dysphoria as a legitimate publication, I'm not unhappy(?; that's a sardenode).
That's particularly with respect the capacities argument.
Tanking PIQ from age-equivalency legalistically about 4 conventional US years' only does so much but both myrthfully and provocatiously a fucking boon. The US media are sociopaths for this targeted irresponsibiility.
That's particularly with respect the capacities argument.
Tanking PIQ from age-equivalency legalistically about 4 conventional US years' only does so much but both myrthfully and provocatiously a fucking boon. The US media are sociopaths for this targeted irresponsibiility.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 6 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #1,178,854
@1,178,786 (N)
I think she had very little considering her family made her the spokesperson for trans kids when she was a child
I also think that her family could be receiving money to promote bottom surgery
I think she had very little considering her family made her the spokesperson for trans kids when she was a child
I also think that her family could be receiving money to promote bottom surgery
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous N replied with this 3 years ago, 9 hours later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #1,179,095
@previous (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
I don't understand the details of this case as well as you do, but I was under the impression that it was the media that promoted her cause and put her into the spotlight following a 2007 interview. Granted, she was still a child and was probably easy to manipulate, but I'm not sure her family can be held entirely responsible for her present situation. I'd also like to believe that by the age of 17, she was capable making an informed decision regarding her future. Granted, her parents could have vetoed the reassignment surgery for another four months but as mentioned above, I don't imagine that would have altered the final outcome.
> I also think that her family could be receiving money to promote bottom surgery
I can't really address that, as I don't have enough information to draw a conclusion. Naturally, I hope that JJ's decade long ordeal wasn't staged for simple financial gain.
I don't understand the details of this case as well as you do, but I was under the impression that it was the media that promoted her cause and put her into the spotlight following a 2007 interview. Granted, she was still a child and was probably easy to manipulate, but I'm not sure her family can be held entirely responsible for her present situation. I'd also like to believe that by the age of 17, she was capable making an informed decision regarding her future. Granted, her parents could have vetoed the reassignment surgery for another four months but as mentioned above, I don't imagine that would have altered the final outcome.
> I also think that her family could be receiving money to promote bottom surgery
I can't really address that, as I don't have enough information to draw a conclusion. Naturally, I hope that JJ's decade long ordeal wasn't staged for simple financial gain.
(Edited 55 seconds later.)
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 3 years ago, 13 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #1,179,097
@previous (N)
The media didn't decide to put her on TV since she was very young. She can never be stealth because of her parents and more specifically, her mother
Regarding the second point. They chose to show her bottom surgery doctors arguing about where to cut on camera. Seriously look up the clip
They also her put her brother (who is such a idiot that he seems nearly retarded) on camera and show him going on dates with trans women who he is clearly not attracted to.
He even puts his arm around one of his "dates " and says he could never be with a trans woman if she hasn't had bottom surgery.
You really should research this family and watch the show. They treat their daughter and other trans girls horribly
The media didn't decide to put her on TV since she was very young. She can never be stealth because of her parents and more specifically, her mother
Regarding the second point. They chose to show her bottom surgery doctors arguing about where to cut on camera. Seriously look up the clip
They also her put her brother (who is such a idiot that he seems nearly retarded) on camera and show him going on dates with trans women who he is clearly not attracted to.
He even puts his arm around one of his "dates " and says he could never be with a trans woman if she hasn't had bottom surgery.
You really should research this family and watch the show. They treat their daughter and other trans girls horribly
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 3 years ago, 17 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #1,179,101
